Gnasher Posted December 14, 2004 Report Share Posted December 14, 2004 After an invite of Kam and his other half to fish with them off Sweet Honey, we lanched at 10am off Lymington in what looked like pukka conditions. Headed out past Hurst and it was a bit lumpy but no probs for her as she ploughed through the waves. Reached the needles and spied both Becky M and Tomkat about a mile south so between them both must be a good starting point we thought. Kam then couldnt hold onto the anchor rope in the strong currents and we lost it before we could connect it up. With the spare only having 30 m of chain we had to head for shallower ground in the solent but in seconds the swell went from medium to 6-8feet and when we watched Becky M being chucked from piller to post we started to worry. Sweet Honey got caught side on in a swell and we ploughed through at 45degrees and i thought we were going side on for sure. After somehow pulling through when it looked over we were hit again, not nice and one of the most scary times of my life. We vthen tried getting North of the needles but very hard and Kam done a great job but we had to pick and choose our waves to help us get in. Eventually finding some smaller water to fish Kam then caught bottom and a big bang as the rod snapped. Not good. With the wind and swell picking up we watched as the charters headed back in as even they werent man enough to tackle it and they fished in the calmer solent. As for the fishing, not a lot done really but Kam saved the day with one small Pout that didnt even show a bite. thanks for a good but very scary day Kam and will try again when the weather is better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newboy Posted December 14, 2004 Report Share Posted December 14, 2004 These swells just appeared from nowhere. One second it was lumpy nad next it was horrendous. Never been so scared in my life (on a boat anyway). Don't think we would stand a very good chance. There would have been no time for radio, phone, nor flares. All we could have hoped for was for Becky M to spot us going down, don't even really want to imagine the senario. Next time Metcheck forecast 3-4 or Onlineweather forecast 2-3, count me out, I'm staying home, it'd be bloody safer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
great white Posted December 14, 2004 Report Share Posted December 14, 2004 Glad to hear that you are both OK, and sorry to read that another anchor got away. Running a fishing boat is always a learning curve, even after many years we are all continuosly picking up new skills. However the first thing to learn is that Safety of boat and crew is the number 1 priority. It is important to realise that the size of tide and the strength of the flow not only effects how hard it is to hold on to an anchor warp, but in areas such as the needles the swells and overfalls rapidly become very large and dangerous as the tide flow increases. especially if the wind direction is opposite to the tide direction. Lessons need to be learnt by us all from such incidents. While it is great to get out fishing please remember even the best fish in the world is not worth dying for. While paying customers may force the decision and persuade larger charter boats to steam around the needles today, a small boat should not have gone considering the size of the spring tide and the forecast. Far bigger Club boats were flounder fishing in Poole Harbour today because of the forecast. This topic has given the Club Committee a lot to discuss this summer, so I thought it right to express my views on the subject even though they sound hard. Best regards and Glad you are safe Charlie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newboy Posted December 14, 2004 Report Share Posted December 14, 2004 Thank you for the advice Charlie. As a newbie, I look at the forecast, wind direction and wave height to decide if it's safe to go out. Not sure if any of the weather sites predict swell sizes. It's so unpredictable how quickly the swells appear. We/I learnt that swell form when the water/tide hit a shallower object but just doesn't expect them in 90 foot of water. Have anyone got Plan B for the worst case scenario, i.e., going down in less than 30 seconds? There just wouldn't be any time for anyone to do anything. Maybe mobile phone wrapped in clingfilm/waterproof bag so at least that will work, or flares in a floatation bag, so to float on the surface and await retrival? Kam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverick Martin Posted December 14, 2004 Report Share Posted December 14, 2004 Kam Those of us that went on the recent sea survival course learnt that you can purchase personal flare packs that are very small and either come in or can be put in a waterproof container and kept on your person . This meens that if you were to go into the water you would have some way of attracting attention. You can also get water proof bags for handheld vhf's and phones Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted December 14, 2004 Report Share Posted December 14, 2004 Kam some of us learnt a similar lesson earlier in the year. Since then i have adopted the approach to always where a lifejacket,all the time. It's one less decision to make when the your in the pooh and it's probably the most important Cheers Paul J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
that's_a_biggin Posted December 14, 2004 Report Share Posted December 14, 2004 only to be expected if you take danny with ya .. think i'll stick to christchurch harbour chasing me bass .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
great white Posted December 14, 2004 Report Share Posted December 14, 2004 Kam There are a few things to help when you are getting into trouble As Paul says have your lifejacket on and have a light attached to it in case it gets dark. about 4.30 today. On my recent advanced powerboat course they were very keen on carrying a chemical light stick in your lifejacket. if you are in the water in the dark it can be activated then waived around. At this time of year a floatation suit is also a bonus, my new one has 80 newtons of bouyancy, is very bright and warm and has groin straps to keep it in the right place and a whistle to attract attention. Add a lifjacket to this and chances of survival are greatly improved. not only because of the bouyancy but also the thermal properties of the suit. Flares can come in waterproof containers, if you have to go over the side hanging on to one of these containers as bouyancy, and having flares to use could save your neck. Try to adopt a policy of making sure that your tell someone what time you will be back and what to do if you are not, the coastguard can be used for this one but please inform them when you get back. a helicopter looking for you in the solent when you are already safely ashore would not win to many friends. I usually just tell my wife, and keep her updated by mobile if I have been tempted to extend the trip due to good weather and a few fish. Lastly try and learn the effect that the various tides have on the area you intend to fish, and consider what effect the predicted wind strength and direction will make to the sea state in that area. a A millpond at slack water over an inshore reef or offshore sandbank will not stay that way on an ebbing [stronger run than the flood] Spring tide. If in doubt ask for advice before going to sea or stay in safer water/or ashore Have Fun and be Safe Charllie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam F Posted December 14, 2004 Report Share Posted December 14, 2004 I use about 4 forecasts, but I have known all of them to be wrong when out at sea. Tides, depth of water and swell can all effect how the sea behaves. This is mainly learnt through experiance and in many cases - the hard way. Last Friday we fished from Weymouth. Out at Porland Race the wind was barely a F1, yet 6 knots of tide pushing 140ft water into 30ft of water created a HUGE swell and breakers than only the largest charters could drift though - the smaller boats (23ft) had to sit it out or drift the slacker water. My solution to abandonment is now as follows: ALL crew wear a lifejacket at ALL times. I have a grab bag ready to go. In here is a full set of Offshore flares, a set of waterproof personel flares and soon to come - a submersable VHF. On a small boat (under 25ft) what more can you reasonably do? As Charlie says the committee have been in discussions over this issue, and a few recent incidences have caused us to consider our position. Adam F Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul D Posted December 14, 2004 Report Share Posted December 14, 2004 Kam, I learnt quickly in a similar way to yourself to always have the anchor warp tied to the boat. This way you will not lose the whole lot ( I assume from your post this is what you did ? ). In my case I was lucky and managed to tie mine onto the cleat before I lost all the rope ( I now have plenty of rope and the nylon stuff is so much better than polypropylene ). Now I have the end of the rope tied through the cleat all the time. Glad you are all OK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seamouse Posted December 15, 2004 Report Share Posted December 15, 2004 I learnt quickly in a similar way to yourself to always have the anchor warp tied to the boat. The problem with that is that if a tanker decides to creep up on you, you are tied to the warp and you can bet that in the haste and confusion you'll not be able to find a bait knife to cut it. Better plan is to end the warp at a small buoy, then you can dump it and run if need be. Doesn't have to be a huge buoy, just big enough to trap the Alderney Ring (if you use one) Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam F Posted December 15, 2004 Report Share Posted December 15, 2004 I agree with Steve - I wouldnt want to be tied off to the anchor. A small football sized bout is enough. I also like to have too much warp in the boat. I have never even come clsoe to using 3/4 of my warp - this also gives you a safety margin when letting warp out, and allows me to adjust the amount of warp out easily without worrying about running out. I think I have about 400 mtrs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnasher Posted December 15, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2004 Nice comment chris you funny man (thats a biggun) NOT!!!! Thanks for everyones advice and yes i think we will all take a lot from the experience. A learning curve, especially for me. Life jackets were worn by all but clearly we should of made more checks on the weather, state of ide etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncan Posted December 15, 2004 Report Share Posted December 15, 2004 Adding to the anchor attachement argument I would suggest that it is a huge safety feature to have it attached as a default. If you get into dificulties that require you to get a hold fast you will not want to be messing around attaching it - Kam's experiences here illustrate that clearly! If you get into the situation of a large tanker running you down then (1) you proabably shouldn't be there anyway (2) just as you should be personally preparted for the water as above a white collission flare should be at hand in the cockpit and (3) if any baot is going to have a knite handy it's going to be a fishing boat - quite frankly the cost of the braid I would loose cutting the lines (you wern't going to wind them in were you?) will match the cost of the anchor gear I will loose so just cut the damm thing and get clear. What I am trying to say, and proably badly, is that your first and only thought should be personal safety and if you stop even once to think about 'have I time for this or that' you are taking an unnecessry risk. If you definitely have time to wind in a rod then you have all the time you need to attach a fender to the anchor warp before cutting it/letting it go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverick Martin Posted December 15, 2004 Report Share Posted December 15, 2004 Kam then couldnt hold onto the anchor rope in the strong currents and we lost it before we could connect it up. When lowering your anchor if you have a turn or two around your anchor point (cleat or bollard) you will have some sort of control. Trying to lower an anchor by hand when the tide is going full bore is no fun as I have found out after many blisters. Its just a small thing but it makes life so much easier. Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
domino Posted December 15, 2004 Report Share Posted December 15, 2004 I like to have the anchor made off to the boat as a matter of course... but in a way that can be released quickly and easily. The attached drawing shows (tries to show ), the set-up I use on Domino. I don't have a bow locker for the anchor and warp, so it lives in a box on the seat under the cuddy. I have a small bouy permanently attached to the free end (to stop it running through the Alderney ring) and the spare warp coiled up in the bottom of the box... the business end goes out through the front hatch (the rubber seal allows the hatch to close OK) and is belayed (correct word?)around the bow bollard. I usually then have about 50m of warp to the anchor and chain... if more, or less, is needed it easy to open the hatch and adjust the length. This warp comes back down the side of the boat, into the cuddy and is stored in the same box, on top of top of the un-used warp. I can now deploy and recover the anchor over the side of the boat... only needing to open the hatch if I need to adjust the length of the warp... or in an emergency to release the warp from the bollard and dump the whole lot... to be recovered later. Cheers, Alan PS. Apologies if any of the nautical terminology is in-correct... I've only just stopped calling the 'bow', the 'pointed end'!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul D Posted December 15, 2004 Report Share Posted December 15, 2004 Alan, That is the sort of set up I use ( apart from no buoy ). When I say the warp is tied to the cleat it is the end of the rope passed through the bottom of the cleat and a knot made in it ( ie. 300 foot of rope between the knot and the anchor ) I am still pondering on how a tanker is going to creep up on me - surely I should be keeping a look out and see it coming - especially if I had a boat called "lookfar" ? Seriously it has got me thinking though which is good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
domino Posted December 15, 2004 Report Share Posted December 15, 2004 ............ I am still pondering on how a tanker is going to creep up on me - surely I should be keeping a look out and see it coming - especially if I had a boat called "lookfar" ? ........... A tip to help you decide if that far-off, but fast approaching, supertanker is going to run you down... If you can see down either side of it... it will pass you by. If you can only see the pointy bit (sorry bow)... move, fast!! Cheers, Alan Legal Disclaimer: All advice is given in good faith, but should not be soley relied on... if in doubt - get the hell out!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
great white Posted December 15, 2004 Report Share Posted December 15, 2004 Another tip You may well see the impending Tanker/Cargo carrier but do not assume he can see you. His deck cargo could obscure smaller objects in front of him for more than 1/2 mile so by the time you are big enough to be seen from well above sea level, you may well be in his forward blind spot. As other have said "If in doubt get the F*** out of his way ASAP" and if that means using the knife on the warp and lines hard luck. Charlie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newboy Posted December 15, 2004 Report Share Posted December 15, 2004 Before anyone say tankers don't move very fast, they can and they do. Not to mention the wakes the produce ...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncan Posted December 15, 2004 Report Share Posted December 15, 2004 Alan, Not trying to be picky but you say you like to have the warp (rode) made off to the boat as a matter of course but if (a big if!) I follow your set up the line is made off to the bow post 'in the middle' in a position dictated by depth. In this I assume the end by the buoy is total free of course - but it would be wouldn't it - as it would be even worse to be anchored by the beam than to loose the anchor when setting it down. Overall I probably don't understand your set up - certainly seem to have 3 ends to the rode too! - 1 to anchor, 1 through hatch and 1 back round the side back on the box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seamouse Posted December 16, 2004 Report Share Posted December 16, 2004 I am still pondering on how a tanker is going to creep up on me - surely I should be keeping a look out and see it coming - especially if I had a boat called "lookfar" ? This's the time of year for it, at least up at the eastern end of the island. We're out on the Spoils in tanker/ferry territory and it is wall-to-wall whiting on a good day. Very busy fishing and it is all too easy to forget the occasional glance forward. By the time you hear something coming it's definitely panic time. Cut lines, dump anchor and run. Hasn't yet happened to me yet but I'll not be wasting any time worrying about tackle if it does. Up to the crew to rescue rods, if need be I'd take off with them still down. Ferrys in particular SCARE me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
domino Posted December 16, 2004 Report Share Posted December 16, 2004 Alan, Not trying to be picky but you say you like to have the warp (rode) made off to the boat as a matter of course but if (a big if!) I follow your set up the line is made off to the bow post 'in the middle' in a position dictated by depth. In this I assume the end by the buoy is total free of course - but it would be wouldn't it - as it would be even worse to be anchored by the beam than to loose the anchor when setting it down. Overall I probably don't understand your set up - certainly seem to have 3 ends to the rode too! - 1 to anchor, 1 through hatch and 1 back round the side back on the box. Duncan, I wasn't sure if my pic was clear enough?? The dotted line around the side is just to indicate the route of the rope when the anchor is up and stored in the box, on top of the un-used rope and end bouy. At no time is the rope attached anywhere on the side of the boat. Does that help? Cheers, Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncan Posted December 16, 2004 Report Share Posted December 16, 2004 Getting clearer Alan! So when you deploy from the side do you have the rode tied of to the bollard at a predetermined length appropriate for the depth you are anchoring in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
domino Posted December 16, 2004 Report Share Posted December 16, 2004 Getting clearer Alan! So when you deploy from the side do you have the rode tied of to the bollard at a predetermined length appropriate for the depth you are anchoring in? That's right, it's usually about 50m... upto now the majotiry of my fishing (at anchor) has been in water no deeper than 20m and without a huge tidal flow... I've always found that this set-up holds me OK. If I do find that I want to drop back a bit, or need more rope to hold, then it's easy enough to let more out... But if I need the 'brake' in an emergency then it's simply a case of lowering the anchor over the side... safe in the knowledge that the rope is already tied off. If I was planning trip where I knew I was going to be fishing deeper water then I would probably adjust to an appropriate length ahead of time. As they say... "It works for me". Cheers, Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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