alun j. Posted June 20, 2005 Report Share Posted June 20, 2005 Help and experience appreciated........... .........I've had three brilliant years using my little Orkney 4 40; always felt safe and it's been utterly reliable and very economical..... but am I outgrowing it ?? I still love trips on my own, and here 4 40 scores, as she whizzes along at 20 + but only on a flat sea, otherwise the ride is very bumpy; but I find I'm having more trips with crew.... and then I'm cramped and slow. I've also enjoyed trips further afield, to the Needles and now been to the Rips and my appetite has been whetted !! I've got a small and building 'boat fund' and see retirement on the horizon [within 7 years]........ so I'm thinking and planning , albeit slowly. In the next year or two, I could move up a size ......... a 5 20 or a Warrior ?? I'm thinking ...... 5 20..... similar qualities, more room, still able to use easily single-handed, light enough for smaller, unbraked trailer [ I've noted trailer problems in postings , esp, with brakes]........ but is it too small ?? [ I note Paul D. wants a bigger boat]. Warrior........ the popular boat....... a lot of you have one....... great fishing area, fast, safe , good ride, esp in the short chop we often get......... but.......... is it too heavy to launch/ retrieve alone?? ........ that big braking trailer seems a handful to push about . My neighbour has an Explorer Elite [similar boat], he manages single-handed but he's younger and stronger than me! Can anyone add other points and / or suggest alternatives and I'll have a more focused look at the Boat Show in Sept. ?? Cheers, Alun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverick Martin Posted June 20, 2005 Report Share Posted June 20, 2005 Alun As you know I have the bigger Warrior so can only give advice through my experience with using mine and studying others boats. I used to have a hardy 17 which was a good little sea boat of the semi-displacement type, which is similar to the Orkney breed of boats. The boats you mention are very similar in size but that is where the similarity stops. Both types are a compromise of sorts. Orkneys as I hinted at above are of semi-displacement type, which means they are a quick displacement boat. The hulls have a flattened area for the boat to plane on and will achieve quite good speeds in very fair weather but they do tend to give a hard ride at speed. On the plus side they will be very economical at slow speeds and be quite seaworthy boats. These type of craft seem to have lowish gunwales which if you are not use to can make you feel a little insecure but s/s rails fitted along the gunwales can increase the feeling of security. The warrior and Elite type hulls are of the Shallow Vee variety so they are not out and out deep Vee speedboats. They are though a fairly quick and stable craft. These are designed to give good stability at rest by having a wide beam (for the size of boat) and a good pointed section at the front for cutting through the waves. There is a flat area at the rear which the boat planes on and also instils some buoyancy to give a stable platform at rest. Don't get this wrong though if driven hard they to will slam and I don't think you will find a small boat that doesn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alun j. Posted June 20, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2005 Thanks Martin. I appreciate the technical details......... the info re, speed / economy especially. You didn't mention launch/retrieve....... I see lots of boats going in/out at Mudeford and rarely see Warriors here [where I normally slip as it's so close and convenient for me]. Would you think the 165 reasonably manageable, single-handed ?? How much water do they need to slide off / onto the trailer?? And would my car [ golf diesel tdi ] be up to the tow?? Plans, plans ............thanks for the input, Alun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncan Posted June 20, 2005 Report Share Posted June 20, 2005 Chucking my 2p in I would have thought you will be able to enjoy the occassional trip offshore as crew and, more importantly, get to use your own as often as you want in the wonderfull inshore waters. I wouldn't compromise on launching / running costs and fishability therefore - or to put it anotherway if I were buying you a retirement present it would be a 520/580? orkney with about a 40 hp 4 stroke motor and a bit of shelter........ up untill a couple of weeks ago when was the last trip to the rips by the warrior brigade? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alun j. Posted June 20, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2005 Thanks Duncan, Yep ! I've got those points floating around in my head, which keeps coming back to the Orkney......... and the 5 90 is an even nicer pckage than the 5 20 but not sure I could handle that on my own ?? Cheers, Alun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newboy Posted June 20, 2005 Report Share Posted June 20, 2005 Doesn't warrior do a smaller boat than the 165? A 150 maybe?! IS that light enough to go under 750kg boat +trailer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob F Posted June 20, 2005 Report Share Posted June 20, 2005 Yes, I tend to agree with Duncan. It is possible to launch and retrieve a Warrior/Alaska type single handed, but it does take a lot of effort, and that's if everything goes ok. If a wheel locks or the current/wind starts moving the boat, the retrieval will be very difficult alone. In the end, I suspect that the extra effort needed in lauching and retrieving a boat alone will put you off going out. As you say, you are not getting any younger. And buying a bigger boat will mean a lot more expense in terms of running costs. In my opinion you should stay will the smaller managable boat, which you obviously enjoy, and have been very successful with. When you want to go further afield, just take advantage of being a club member and crew on one of the other boats. For lauching from Mudeford and fishing the local inshore areas, you have probably already got the best compromise for your situation. If taking another crew member means you go a little slower, so what? BF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul D Posted June 20, 2005 Report Share Posted June 20, 2005 Alun, You can buy my 520 and I can get the Orkney 19+ Day Angler which I fancy next ( Retrieval single handed is possible with the 520 but in a side current/wind it is really hard, since you have to get the boat abouta quarter way along teh trailer before it starts self centering - and even then I always get it slightly crooked ! ). The 520 is slower than a Warrior 165. Single handed mine now does 19 knots flat out. 2 or 3 up it will do 10-12 knots. Weight wise it is lighter than a Warrior - to the extent that I can tow it on an unbraked trailer ( big advantage in my books ). RE: Rips - I would be tempted to go out there but would take me 2 hours to get there ( as opposed to 1 to 1 1/2 hours on a Warrior ). Not a huge difference really and the Orkney IMHO is as seaworthy as a Warrior. Also, I suspect it will use less fuel than is suspected as I find mine VERY economical. eg. 3 up we went from Wick to end of the ledge and then along Dolphin sands and over to Old Harry then back to Southbourne Rough over to X-Ray then back to the ledge. Ledge to Wick and towed a speedboat halfway through the harbour. Total fuel used = 16 to 18 litres. Not bad eh ? re: Duncan's suggestion - 40 HP engine is actually 5 HP more than the max rating by Orkney ( 35 HP ) - have to say I was tempted myself to get a 40 HP engine and have seen 520s sporting such engines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coddy Posted June 20, 2005 Report Share Posted June 20, 2005 Hi Alun A freind of mine has a Warrior 150 with a ecotec 75hp on the back He goes out a lot on his own and fishes from Eastney. If you want to see some reports from owners then check out my web site Fishing Boats and Equipment I have had a SeaHog Hunter which was great as a starter boat but when it turns rough the Warrior 165 I have now wins hands down. Downside of 165's they can get a bit heavy when loaded with everything, need to watch the weight for the car. If you want to look around or try a 165 give me a call Coddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alun j. Posted June 20, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2005 Thanks guys, This isn't going to be an easy call; there are so many variables to consider. The stimulus for considerations has come from: * kids growing up and being more independent......... * giving me more time to get out fishing [but not in Rich's league] * loving wife [running her own business, taking more of her time] knowing , at last, how important this affliction/ life force / work-lifebalance thing we have is * catching the ingredients for the best meals. Add to this the stimulus this club has fuelled........ I'm needing to try new grounds esp. to cover those lean months eg. March/April on the Shambles........and I must try that bass fishing in the autumn....... And the amazing bunch of friends this club holds together........ and help each other out.......... amazing......... and true socialism. I will keep pondering and work on the pros./cons. through the next six months fishing trips. But having said that, I may not want to come back from Canada this summer!! Cheers, Alun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverick Martin Posted June 20, 2005 Report Share Posted June 20, 2005 And the amazing bunch of friends this club holds together........ and help each other out.......... amazing......... and true socialism. Brings a tear to my eye but I have to agree with it wholeheartedly, its a cool club Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newboy Posted June 20, 2005 Report Share Posted June 20, 2005 A freind of mine has a Warrior 150 with a ecotec 75hp on the back Was that an Etec 75? If it is, I would like to know what performance it does. It was on my short list of outboards before I bought the tldi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coddy Posted June 20, 2005 Report Share Posted June 20, 2005 Hi Kam Sorry about spelling and yes it is an etec 75. On a Warrior 150 it has become a missile 35+kts and more economic than a Mariner 60hp 4 stroke Turn the key, watch the lights come on then starts first time every time. He did have a bit of a hic up when he ran out of fuel the first time but all sorted now. Had to go back to supplier for some reason Coddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newboy Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 Would have been easier if it'd run out of oil, that thing can run without oil for 5 hours @ 2000 rev. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seamouse Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 He did have a bit of a hic up when he ran out of fuel the first time but all sorted now. Hi Coddy, I think the problem was the oil. For some bizarre reason, the manufacturer supply the etec with oil it doesn't like, Warrior emptied the tank but couldn't do anything about what was already in the pump. It cut back to tickover a few times soon after first start-up which is apparently the oil foaming and making the engine think its got none. Apart from that, he loves the thing. I HATE it . You just touch the key and it goes straight to a smooth tickover, whether hot or stone cold. Compare that to the artform that is starting my crotchety Bigfoot Steve p.s let me know if you are coming east for a trip, will try and meet up if times pan out though Selsey's just not really hitting form this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 Check out essexboatyards.com. look at their stock list for fishing boats. You may see something you like there. They may also do a part exchange on your old boat. They are in Southend but they deliver. I part exchanged my Bayliner for an Arvor 20 in 2001. They gave a good price for the px. They have a warrior type boat on the site now. Regards John C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seamouse Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 handed ?? How much water do they need to slide off / onto the trailer?? And would my car [ golf diesel tdi ] be up to the tow?? Hi Alun, No problem handling a Warrior 165 solo, they come on and off the rollercoaster trailers very easily. I have no problems and I'm no superhero. On an average to steep slip, you can get away with the wheels no deeper in than the lower edge of the rim and the stern won't touch down. On a shallow slip, you will need to submerge to bearing level or beyond and the boat will need more of a shove to get it moving. That brings us to brakes. They're a pig. Wash them out after every trip, remove and grease/oil the bowden cables at least yearly, don't leave the rig standing with the handbrake on and all you then have to worry about is the linings detaching from the shoe. Which they occasionally can. Bearings are sealed and resist getting dunked in salt water quite well. Its true that the 150 was supplied on an unbraked trailer, it's the better boat for a largely solo operator but latterly, I believe they were only supplied on braked trailers and I'm pretty sure they've been discontinued (if you were thinking to buy new). The Golf will tow a 165 OK, I towed mine for a few years with a 1.6 petrol Escort. Recovery is another matter. I use a steep slip and front wheel drive was extremely marginal for traction. Hope that helps. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plaicemat Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 Just a little note on the brake bowden cables. The ones on my Warrior trailer have been changed for stainless steel rods which dispense with the cable maintenance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coddy Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 Just a little note on the brake bowden cables. The ones on my Warrior trailer have been changed for stainless steel rods which dispense with the cable maintenance. Is that from the compensator to the drum? If so would love to see how that was done. Coddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plaicemat Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 They go from the compensator to the cross beam and then the cables from there to the drums are apparently sealed. I did not fit it so cannot guarantee it until I have been using it for some time. Will report further. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coddy Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 Adam and I were at the last boat jumble and talked to the new guys at indespension who said fitting a solid rod from the over run to compensator makes the brakes more positive and effective. I have been told, but not tried it yet, is to take off the cables to the drum and pour diesel in the cable or let it soak in a tub of diesel overnight. Stops rusting or sticking inner cable to outer. Coddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seamouse Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 I have been told, but not tried it yet, is to take off the cables to the drum and pour diesel in the cable or let it soak in a tub of diesel overnight. Stops rusting or sticking inner cable to outer. I can confirm from bitter experience that the cables can and will rust solid into the outer. Sod's Law applied: I discovered that on the eve of a trip, had to back out and the whiting that day were climbing up the lines to get into the boats. I was gutted to miss that As Plaicemat said, the cables are sealed at the compensator end. Sadly, they are not sealed at the drum end. Out of sight, out of mind. Easy to oil up, just hang them drum end upright and pour oil into the handy cup arrangement and leave overnight. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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