Adam F Posted March 6, 2005 Report Share Posted March 6, 2005 Just a really random, one off question.... ' How does one learn to build a boat?' Just something I have been thinking about recently. If you want to learn to do wood working you can do a college course, if you want to learn to fish you can buy a magazine, websites etc... But I have now spoken and know of several people that have built (fit out, engine etc etc, basically from bare mouldings) their own boats, many of the club members have infact - but it seems to be, as someone who knows very little about this a real minefield of a subject. Am just interested thats all....maybe in a few years who knows! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Posted March 6, 2005 Report Share Posted March 6, 2005 I built a mirror dinghy many moons ago. I know building from a kit isn't the same thing but gives an insight in what goes into the design of the thing! I think you need to be one of those people that can turn their hand to anything or at least willing to learn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shytalk Posted March 6, 2005 Report Share Posted March 6, 2005 boatbuilding is not a skill but a whole variety of skills together. i.e laminater, carpenter, engineer, electrician plumber, upholsterer, metalworker etc and as most boats are unique in their fit out design comes into it too. there is no substitute for hands on experience Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam F Posted March 6, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2005 OK - So how does one gain that hands on experiance, or would you recommend just jumping in and learning as you go? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shytalk Posted March 6, 2005 Report Share Posted March 6, 2005 worked for me . i think !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack the Lad Posted March 6, 2005 Report Share Posted March 6, 2005 Hi Adam, Don't just jump in ! Your boat building mistakes can be very expensive - your life. Pontoon/quay side advice can also be more than a bit dubious! When we were building 'one off yachts' a few guys learnt by offering/volunteering their time (some evenings and most weekends) in exchange they learnt 'how to' with hands on. We had quite a few who wanted to learn but only accepted those that were already pretty good with tools and took considerable care and pride in their work. So, perhaps if you can find a small boat builder - unfortunately now it's more difficult due to insurance policies/liabilities etc. Old days, peeps took care and if you lost a finger in the saw - it was your own fault! Due to an Americanised "let's sue'" society lots of such opportunities have been lost. There used to be a couple of good wooden boat building schools, I think one of the principal founders went here? BOAT BUILDING COURSE There does seem some experienced guys in the club who am sure will give their good knowledge. Really if you want to fit out a small 'plastic fantastic' not much problem - if you want to build an ocean cruising yacht; take professional advice. It's all about size does matter Cheers - Jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coddy Posted March 6, 2005 Report Share Posted March 6, 2005 Adam There is a place at Lyme Regis where they teach boat building just up from Cobbs Quay. A long way to go but there must be other places nearer. Coddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 A few years back,a mate and I built a 13' glassfibre Dory,in winter in my garage,thinking "how hard can it be? ....Well i'l tell you. 1. when the hull arrived,it was like a large bendy bath, 1a.prepare large wooden jig to stand it on and establish a true keel and shape. 2,make supports [more woodwork] to establish correct hull shape and alignment.3.this is where you discover you could have done with a lot more sheltered space to work in. Next having secured vast amounts of timber ;chopped strand mat ;resin and thinner/cleaner,and lots of throwaway paint brushes and rollers.you need to be sure that you can maintain a temperature sufficient to cure the work you are do-ing quickly.[ours was in winter,in a standard garage with plugged in electric radiators,] the materials are all highly inflamable and as we discovered poisonous and skin irritating ,to say nothing of smelly and sticky. GRP sticks to hands ;hair and clothing much more readily than to timber or other GRP.We were both banned from entering the house,because you will drop lots and it sticks to your boots ! also no amount of showering and hair washing gets rid of the smell.If your kit instuctins say "can be built by 2 persons in 50hrs",just laugh and throw that part away. To finish this novel,Have a go ! maintain an open attitude to the plans,be inventive when you get to tasks they don't describe fully.keep a sense of humour and dont give up and advertise your incompleted effort on e-bay with the phrase "needs only a couple of hours to complete" P .S. When you finsh you can nail your rock solid overalls to the garage wall as an artwork. Best of luck Jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam F Posted March 7, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 Thanks for the input guys. Its not something Im thinking of immediatly, but looking ahead (as we optimistic anglers do!) I would like to upgrage from 16' to something maybe 23/25' in maybe 2/3 years time. Now I could just buy a bigger vessel, or I could buy the mouldings and have a go myself. As I said, not firm plans yet, but just thinking of ideas for the future. Just a really daunting subject thats all - expecially when you have invested maybe 10k in a 'huge fibreglass bathtub!' getting it wrong is a BIG, COSTLY error. Adam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
great white Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 Some very good advice has already been offered. It is very much a multi skilled task that also requires a great deal of commitment and patience from the "other half" When I fitted out GW in the garden a hell of a lot of hours were spent in the tent while Wendy was left to look after the house and Baby. sitting here at the moment, off work with a chest infection, reminds me of the effects of the GRP fumes as well [and I was using an air fed respirator] There is more to be considered than just the savings, its bloody hard work, takes a lot of time [most people stop fishing during the project] the pressure mounts as the project builds pace. But in my case it was worth it, I can clearly remember launch day and the satisfaction of knowing I had built the boat myself. 14 years and many happy times and good fish later I am still pleased with the results. Charlie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack the Lad Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 Hi Adam, If you buy a 'known' model of boat professionally built it will hold it's value better and be easier and therefore less costly to insure. Resale is also a whole lot easier. When we were building every new boat built had to be CE registered. Not a problem for recognised boat builders but as a 'do it yourselfer' a possible major problem. I don't think you're allowed to legally sell a 'new boat' for ?? years without a CE cert. You need to check this as I'm not bang up to date. I think it's definitely easier to work a few more "hours" and buy a good professionally built boat. Purchasing the glass hull, deck cabin etc is only the start. OR are you going to rent moulds and lay it up yourself?? - please, don't go there! "Spend your time fishing not boat building" - IMHO However, if you decided to go ahead I would be happy to assist with advice/tips etc; if you so required. Cheers - Jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncan Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 Once upon a time 2 boys bought a 26ft hull and deck to build and go off round the world (sail) Over 6 years later one went...........the other had become settled and started a family. It was interesting rather than fun; more about a hobby and doing it your way than saving money. With modular building, it doesn't make a lot of sense to finish off a boat either - it's a damm sight easier to fit electronics, engines, plumbing and electrics before the hull and deck are sealed up! Even woodworking will have a proffessional with a fully fitted workshop producing things in such a fraction of the time that any real savings evaporate. Earn the money then spend it. Maintenance is however a slightly different proposition as it goes hand in hand with understanding your machine sufficiently to operate and solve problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
great white Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 Duncan There are loads of tales of boats not being finished, not looking good at the finish marrages breaking up etc etc So you are very right to discuss the "True Costs" of such projects. Friends who earn good money have said to me often, that they were better as you suggest adding a few hours to their working week and paying for a complete boat than to use all their liesure time for 12 months making one, and suffer all the bad feeling at home and the frustration of not having any fishing time during the build. lots to consider Charlie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncan Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 it's that last part Charlie - if you donlt have any other calls on your time, ie it becomes your hobby, then you might be OK.....unless of course you are retired, have the skills and want to do something all day, everyday........! Other don't are (1) space - has to have dedicated space that doesn't conflict ever! (2) financial partnerships (other than marriage) - don't. Someone has to own the costs, and the boat, all the way through to the finish. Friendships just won't survive the demands otherwise - priorities change etc. All of the above assumes a 'big job' of course. If you taking on a big rebuild over a winter they don't apply - but as Jack says ignore the first few estimates of time required (or something like that!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam F Posted March 7, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 Interesting points as I said before - Im quite glad it has sparked an interesting thread. I was just interested in the satfisfaction side of things, as Charlie said - the pride in making something yourself. It would not be a money issue - I can clearly see that the cost and time equation doesnt work. Interesting point Duncan made about having a more proffessional finish from the boatyard....Im not one to comment with little experiance of bigger boats, but from what I have seen and certianly heard, the finish often isnt fantastic - especially on the lower budget 23-25' boats. They often tend to have the fit out of a 16-18' boat on a bigger scale and when producing on a volume does the engineer really care how smooth he gets a wooden dash profile. Anyway - it certianly has put a few more prospectives on the idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncan Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 woa..... Even woodworking will have a proffessional with a fully fitted workshop producing things in such a fraction of the time that any real savings evaporate doesn't translate into Interesting point Duncan made about having a more proffessional finish from the boatyard using any dictionary I have ever seen! I absolutely agree with the point you make re quality as well as personalisation - but it comes at a huge price in terms of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnasher Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 How funny this link should be mentioned as Im just about to build a small tender boat for myself out of Fibreglass, I think that will be much easier than a 23footer though. Im just doing a small baton frame, with ply base and sides and fibre glassing the whole thing over the top inside and out. I can predict a proper bodge job comming on but I think it will be fun and Ive only got to row the thing 30m anyway so anything that floats will do me. Oh and Lewis my 3yr old is my labourer....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam F Posted March 7, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 Sorry, duncan read the post a bit too quick and mis-interprited it. AF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncan Posted March 8, 2005 Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 np Adam - sry I was a bit short in my repost yesterday too; things a little heated! it is the wish to enjoy and appreciate the touches we can add to our boats that puts me off any long project again. I estimate it took me 40 hrs in total replacing my (already knoackered) ply gunwale inserts with solid iroko. If I was actually on a build project know I just wouldn't have those 40 hours spare! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shytalk Posted March 8, 2005 Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 as with all things striking the balance is a big part of the decision of whether to build or buy. if you have the money to buy and are happy with the quality of the build then do so it save a lot of grief but as very few of us have the money and more importantly can find the quality of build the decision is almost made for us as for resale values a good home build will fetch a premium over a standard factory boat in a lot of cases for instance i am just putting the finishing touches to a boat that has cost in the region of 55k to build but when offered for sale will fetch about 100k or from a different angle a factory finished version costs from 85k + extras so its a win win situation provided you have the skill and time you can save at least 30k and have a better quality boat. there are several club members who have built or had home built boats and the ones i have been involved with have been done that way for the quality more than money . but its not for the feinthearted if you know who to ask and where to look advice is usualy forthcoming peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam F Posted March 8, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 Thanks Peter - I think you hit the nail on the head with that last post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack the Lad Posted March 8, 2005 Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 Any boat now completed without a CE certificate cannot be sold in the EU for five years; legally. So, make sure you build within compliance of the regs and find out what you have to do before you start building, to obtain certification. I personally would not be happy having to wait five years before being able to sell. Make sure you also have enough money (more than your budget) and time(longer than you think) to complete the project - because, a partly built boat isn't worth "diddly squat" Unfortunately I've seen too many projects start and not finished - dreams broken and shattered; divorces etc etc. It costs the same in time and money to fit out a poor/cheap hull as a well designed quality hull. So, make sure your hull is from a recognised designer, quality constructed, CE marked and supplied with the certifcate; also HIN marked correctly. Well done Shytalk - sounds if you've gone the course and coming out the other side - great stuff. Some 'homebuilt' do fetch more; I'm afraid most don't. Typical is the guy who starts off with loads of enthusiasm etc and the standard of fit-out and trim is excellent. Then as you go through the boat you can see the trim etc deteriorating as he runs out of patience - boat value ????. I could fill a book of horror stories where I've had to sort out home built disasters and 'c*ck ups' Think I've said enough now Good luck and be happy to anybody out there boat building . The Bajan's reckon one day somebody will cross the Pond and sail in on a bail of straw Cheers - Jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shytalk Posted March 11, 2005 Report Share Posted March 11, 2005 my latest homebuild !!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam F Posted March 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2005 What a beauty!!! I want one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted March 11, 2005 Report Share Posted March 11, 2005 Wow, you must be pleased it's all over! are you fishing this summer or are you straight into another one? Paul J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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