Adam F Posted October 3, 2004 Report Share Posted October 3, 2004 Back in the summer the RNLI were doing free Sea Checks on boats launching or retreaving from Wick, I was in a rush at the time but booked a home visit for later in the year....I had mine on Friday. The Sea Check is FOC, and just aims to advise you on safety aboard your vessel, when you consider the costs of running the RNLI, prevention is better than cure, hence the free Sea Check. My boat has ALL of the equiptment in the clubs list both essential and recommended, therefore I though BW was pass with flying colours. She didnt do bad, but I was surprised about the amount of things he bought up that I didnt have.... 1.) Radar Reflector - essential kit 2.) MOB Recovery equipt. (Harness, strops etc) 3.) Life raft / inflatable dingy 4.) Fire Blanket 5.) Dan Bouy 6.) LM / FM Radio reciever 7.) EPIRB 8.) Emergancy Ariel 9.) Hand Bearing Compass 10.) Binoculars 11.) Shapes (at anchor etc..) The fact that I have 2 batteries for back-up, a back-up GPS, and a spare anchor never appeared on his listed and in his opinion were not as important as the above list...also the fact that I have no room as it is when we go out fishing didnt seem of interest to him. Nevertheless, it was free and was interesting to hear it from their point of view. If you can spare an hour, give the RNLI a call, after all its free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Bray Posted October 3, 2004 Report Share Posted October 3, 2004 Hi Adam, I'm surprised they did not suggest only going out with a buddy boat just in case, then if you get into trouble you can all jump into the other boat, of course first making sure that you are not exceeding the capacity of said boat, therefore you must go out in pairs of Warriors but with no more than 2 persons aboard each so as not to exceed the capacity of 4 persons if one boat gets into trouble. There has to be a modicum of common sense involved, yes, a radar reflector would be good, but in a warrior/explorer size boat the little things they sell as reflectors do not show well on radar, the reason for my having Radar on Avin Alaf is not so much for my benefit for navigating in fog as to send out an active radar signal so as the larger traffic in the channel know I am there. An epirb again would be good but the disproportionate cost of the 406Mhz models make them out of the reach of the normal person, and the 121.5Mhz versions which are cheaper are being faded out are not that great. Better that the money is spent on a DSC radio and learn how to use it, then if something happens, hope you can stay with the boat. I would agree that it is probably a good idea to have some form of MOB recovery equipment, but a liferaft/inflatable dingy? where the hell are you going to store or even better how are you going to deploy one in a 16ft boat. The boat is supposed to be unsinkable anyway if it meetes EU standards, so if you have time to inflate/deploy the liferaft you may as well stay with your boat. If your boat is hit by another vessel, you probably won't have time to inflate or deploy the bloody thing anyway. In a perfect world we would have all of these items, along with many others in our 65ft ex-trawler which we only use for fishing in local esturies and within 100 yards of the shore so as not to put ourselves in any danger. I believe that if you had everything on the above lists and all the relevant qualifications, there would still be something to add that you could have or something that could be upgraded. As i said earlier, it is all about common sense and how safe you feel. I believe that I am safer fishing around the Eddystone or Hands Deep reefs (both about 14 miles offshore) than I am fishing in the waters a couple of miles offshore. This is due to the number of charter and private boats in these areas who would be quick to offer help if any was required, where if in trouble fishing in a less populated area it may be some time before any help would arrive. Still every input you receive is food for thought, and if you feel you need something suggested then the visit was not in vain. Eddie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverick Martin Posted October 3, 2004 Report Share Posted October 3, 2004 As i said earlier, it is all about common sense and how safe you feel. I believe that I am safer fishing around the Eddystone or Hands Deep reefs (both about 14 miles offshore) than I am fishing in the waters a couple of miles offshore. This is due to the number of charter and private boats in these areas who would be quick to offer help if any was required, where if in trouble fishing in a less populated area it may be some time before any help would arrive One of the major benefits of belonging to an active club is that there is safety in numbers. Don't see that on the rnli check list. I had an RNLI see check done last year at baiter slip. The guy that done my check again found some items on his list that I should be carrying, he did however state that Maverick which has all the safety equipment listed in our own club list was better equiped than any he had seen launched from Baiter slipway Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coddy Posted October 3, 2004 Report Share Posted October 3, 2004 1.) Radar Reflector - essential kit 2.) MOB Recovery equipt. (Harness, strops etc) 3.) Life raft / inflatable dingy 4.) Fire Blanket 5.) Dan Bouy 6.) LM / FM Radio reciever 7.) EPIRB 8.) Emergancy Ariel 9.) Hand Bearing Compass 10.) Binoculars 11.) Shapes (at anchor etc..) Nevertheless, it was free and was interesting to hear it from their point of view. If you can spare an hour, give the RNLI a call, after all its free. Hi, I agree with Eddie that small boats can not carry all what they suggest, however This is the Club's safety list: VHF Radio CB Radio 1 Lifejacket per person Towrope In date flares Horse shoe ring -----------------------RNLI Check First Aid Kit Auxiliary engine Anchor, chain +warp Spare warps 2nd Anchor + warp GPS / Navigator Torch Echo sounder Fire extinguisher of appropriate category -----What about capacity? Radar reflector ------------------------RNLI Check Compass ------------------------------RNLI Check Horn / whistle Fuses (where appropriate) Tool kit Bailer Timepiece ---------------------- Standard on most GPS & Plotters Navigation lights (working) Relevant chart So it seems the club has thought of most things. A radio may be useful but it is nice to get away from music/phones and noise when fishing, at least I think it is Under the regs you are supposed to show a ball shape when at anchor, BUT and this is a BIG but "How many yachts do you see with a motor cone raised when under power EVEN when their sails are up?" I have only ever seen one and I have since found out it was a training yacht so I suppose they have to do the "right thing" I will get off my soap box now Coddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul D Posted October 4, 2004 Report Share Posted October 4, 2004 Mind you, what grounds would you have for complaint if a yacht slices you in two when at anchor , if you have no balls showing ( perhaps I should reword that ! ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newboy Posted October 4, 2004 Report Share Posted October 4, 2004 Mind you, what grounds would you have for complaint if a yacht slices you in two when at anchor , if you have no balls showing ( perhaps I should reword that ! ). Just tell the insurer your ball is with the wreck at the bottom of the Solent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
great white Posted October 4, 2004 Report Share Posted October 4, 2004 I would be more concerned about what others are doing out there than if I was showing the right signs when I am fishing. Navigating through the harbour when the Birmingham Navy are about is much more dangerous than sitting on the spoils without a Black Ball up. That list from the RNLI is very extensive and I can see why the Radar Reflector is essential. [should this be added to our list?] but MOB recovery kit, shapes, epirb where do you put all that and still have room for the sarnies and bait? Its a bit more important to have mates to call on when the sh*t hits the Fan, hence the good old PBSBAC. Charlie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newboy Posted October 4, 2004 Report Share Posted October 4, 2004 So, them small radar relector at about Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Afishionado Posted October 4, 2004 Report Share Posted October 4, 2004 So, them small radar relector at about Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam F Posted October 4, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2004 The tubular type are a possibilty, and something worth looking at. The RNLI chap commented that ' something is better than nothing, and at present your boat gives a very small radar relection' IMHO, and if money wasnt an issue, the SEE ME type active reflectors are the nutts. They are small and would give BW the same relection as a 30 ton boat!! But at almost 400 quid, id rather have a colour plotter! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul D Posted October 4, 2004 Report Share Posted October 4, 2004 Mike, "Yes, very good sailors have used them for years....." only post war Mike, radar wasn't invented prior to that Seriously, when we were heading out of Weymouth in fog, I was beginning to think it would be a good idea to have one, what with that big Condor Ferry around Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Afishionado Posted October 4, 2004 Report Share Posted October 4, 2004 Paul interjects.......... only post war Mike, radar wasn't invented prior to that For goodness sake Paul yachts had them in the mid 50's and if 50 years aint 'years' what is? Mad Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul D Posted October 4, 2004 Report Share Posted October 4, 2004 Mike, twas only joking ( hence the ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncan Posted October 5, 2004 Report Share Posted October 5, 2004 in calm conditions (the sort we would normally want to sit out at night in) you will show up on radar quite clearly (you do already on mine anyway!!!). I don't notice much difference from the static type radar reflectors - I ran round the harbour lookign for anchored boats to check this when I first fitted it.... They have obviously continued to update the list from when Phaeton had her check in 2001 but an Epirb seems way ott! We had the tender on weaver davits at the time but (obviously) leave it behind when we go fishing! Additional suggestion from the seacheck that we do now carry is black binliners - if you get a casulaty out the water it's better to wrap them in one or two than strip them (certain pop stars excluded) as they will quickly develop a warm layer of wet clothing. Item they didn't have on their list was a tide table!!!!!!!!!!!! which prompted much discussion and embarassment on their side. Definitely worth doing for the chat more than the list - makes you think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malroy Posted October 6, 2004 Report Share Posted October 6, 2004 On the subject of safetey and for anybody who may be interested, take a look on Fylde Boat Clubs web site - safety ( ww.fbac.co.uk ). They have done a lot of work in conjunction with the RNLI safety checks thus coming up with both Silver & Gold SeaCheck award systems in respect to equipment/training requirements that are relative to the nature of launching. Not being able to join a boat club in the vacinity where I regulary launch on Anglesey (as there just arn't any) and normally launching on our own (wife and I), we set the Gold as our target as we had no other benchmarks. Its not cheap by any measure, i.e. 2nd backup VHF and back up VHF Aerial etc. We still felt this to be quite appropriate as we go out on our own all the time & up to about 15 miles offshore and the Gold is levelled at covering this. Levels of safety gear needed can be very relevant to how many there are of you and where you are going. There's a lot said for the old saying "safety in numbers", so when on your own you need to be extra specially protective. Late last year we had our 1st SeaCheck done using this as the benchmark. During the check the Advisor noted on the report a couple of things that had been missed i.e. reflective tape on the lifebuoy, having at least one of the lifejackets fitted with a safety harness + having the harness safety strap itself per chance I had to do any work where I was at risk of falling overboard e.g. changing or clearing a prop etc. Since then these have been sorted. He looked closely to ensure we both had crotch straps for the lifejackets, stressing how critical these were (fatalities having been recorded where they had slipped off) & how often they were overlooked etc.(we did have them having already been advised to do so). It appears that this is not listed and becomes a word of mouth issue however I may be wrong on this. Safety Advisors although working to a set check list, appear to add and apply any relevant experience/tips/knowledge that they pick up within their own realms of experience which I feel makes each check slightly different and unique. As a consequence, I feel pretty sure that if you had you boat checked twice over the same weekend by two seperate advisors then different points would be noted. It gets out of hand with suggestions of having liferafts on 15' & 16' fishing boats. We become at risk of accidents by falling overboard from tripping over all the safety gear if we are not carefull. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Afishionado Posted October 6, 2004 Report Share Posted October 6, 2004 The whole thing does get totaly out of hand IMO and should be renamed SEA CHEQUE We are getting to the 'Kids having to wear goggles to play conkers' stage. As one can not buy common sense and experiance they are trying to replace it with OTT safety recommendations. The sea still got up and bit you back in the days when a sports fishing boat had a 5hp Stuart Turner and a back up pair of oars. We learnt to use the tide not fight it, respect the signs in the sky for changing weather, and used caution in all things. The biggest safety features IMO is erring on the safe side even if it means loosing fishing time and using ones brain. OK Rant over Mad Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
great white Posted October 6, 2004 Report Share Posted October 6, 2004 Ah the old days. When if it was dark or misty no one really knew where they were, or which way was home. There were so many fish the swash channel was full of Tope and wreck fishing was a day out with Mike and his old mate Stuart Turner. on an old clinker built wreck. No flying off to bloody Cuba to get a tan in those days old Chap. have a great trip Charlie [Not bitter or twisted, just jealous] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverick Martin Posted October 6, 2004 Report Share Posted October 6, 2004 imo sea check is a brilliant scheme! it costs the recipient nothing and in return gets loads of information on how to fit out a boat with saftey in mind. Of course there are limits as to what we on small boats can carry and you have to use your own judgement as to what you really need to carry. So long as there idiots prepared to spend thousands on a loverly looking vessel, put it to sea without a thought as to how he will fare when put in a situation then there is a need for peeps at the other end of the scale to try and balance it out a bit. Does that make sense? it is rather late Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seamouse Posted October 7, 2004 Report Share Posted October 7, 2004 in calm conditions (the sort we would normally want to sit out at night in) you will show up on radar quite clearly (you do already on mine anyway!!!). Hi folks, Just harping back to the radar reflector thread, last year I arrived at a favoured mark to find HMS Tyne drifting near it doing 'tests'. Meant I got quite close to her whilst anchoring and they came on the VHF and told me I'd got within 50 yards (choppy sea, Warrior 165) before they spotted me by radar - and that was military spec hardware. Later the same day I had to ask another big grey beast to divert as it was coming straight at me. Now I've got one of those tube reflectors, plus one of the alloy cheapo ball devices strapped to a pole that I can shove in a rod holder at anchor but I doubt I make much more signal and frankly, I strongly doubt whether the tankers and ferries pay much attention to the radar by daylight anyway. Right or wrong, the onus is on the small boat to get out of the way. Having the moral high ground is scant compensation for being sat on by a container ship. Eyes peeled at anchor, buoy the warp so you can dump the lot and run at a moments notice and just hope when the day comes it is a five knot tanker that has crept up on you not one of those scary great high-speed ferries! Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncan Posted October 7, 2004 Report Share Posted October 7, 2004 Welcome Steve, In rougher seas radar settings will naturally be set by an operator to ensure a true echo stands out ie the clutter setting will be increased. You will disappear because you don't stand out. A radar enhancement like See Me will result in you showing intermittently amongst waves as line of sights permits but the alloy thingy isn;t realy going to be that much good for a small craft relative to a yacht raising it high up so that when it is at an efficient angle it is being seen and will show. In calm seas and when settings are lower you will show as a blip - and on a military set you should be very well defined in any event. Alloy thing might help a bit as it should be in view as for above but my basic tests didn't differentiate between those with and without at similar ranges and boats. I have radar because I would have seen Tyne before 50 yds even if she wouldn't see me! Re your last paragraph I couldn't agree more! Incidents are for avoiding not arguing afterwards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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