Electrics

[Sole Man]

Like Iv'e said got my boat ,it has electric wiring but does not look that good so I want to change it.Will any type of wiring be ok.

Also it needs a new battery,what type should i get and how do you wire it in so that the outboard re-charges it.

 

Any help gratefuly received.

 

Thanks

 

John

[Afishionado]

Like Iv'e said got my boat ,it has electric wiring but does not look that good so I want to change it.Will any type of wiring be ok.

Also it needs a new battery,what type should i get and how do you wire it in so that the outboard re-charges it.

 

Any help gratefuly received.

 

Thanks

 

John

Automotove wiring is perfect but all connections 'should' be soldered as the spade type often get poor contact through salt air corrosion.

 

For battery advice and connection I'll leave that to others, but IMO a good car type battery will serve as an outboards electrical power source.

 

Mad Mike

[Sole Man]

Thanks mike

 

John

[reddriff]

Hi John

 

i would read up as much as i could or better get a boat or auto sparks to help

 

There are books in the Force4 Chandlery in poole WWW.force4.com (Boat owners wiring manual or The 12 volts Bible for boats)

 

just rember A short can cause a FIRE!!!!!!!

 

[Newboy]

Without knowing what outboard you have and how/if it's connected, I can only speak in general terms.

 

First, is the outboard an elec start one? If it is, then the present connection will do provided they are in good condition. If it is a pull start, it may or may not (if a small hp) have the mean to recharge a battery.

 

The type of battery will depend on what it is use for. This topic has been discussed before in detail just do a search on battery/batteries.

[Swainiac]

Jonno.........Bob F is the guy for electrics. Have a search through historic threads as this has been covered exhaustively by a few of the guys who have had to re wire boats. Adam F has also done his from top to bottom and front to back......so he is also worth a PM......both jolly good eggs by the way.

 

Rich

[Sinbad]

John

Just a thought, but the boat I had was electric start etc, four stroke Yamaha Outboard, but had no charger fitted to the engine.

Maybe yours is different, but worth a check.

 

Good Luck

Paul

[Bob F]

John

 

Have a read through the attached file.

 

BF

[charlieannear]

Depending on your budget (and your level of perfectionism ) you might want to consider marine cable instead of automotive cable.

The difference is that marine cable is fully tinned and therefore more resistant to corrosion, however, it is not as readily available and is more expensive. I have recently re-wired my boat and got mine from sea screw.

 

Crimp connectors are expensive if you only by them by the half dozen from Halfords or similar, whereas the same money will get you a bumper bag-full from Screwfix. I found the larger size ones (which you probably only need a couple of) to be cheapest from B&Q, believe it or not. Waterproof crimp connectors are available, but I wasn't able to find an affordable source of those. Heat shrink sleeving is also good stuff for keeping moisture out of joints.

 

C.

 

[gaffa]

I agree with Charlie,

 

If you want the longest lasting installation use the tinned marine grade wire and soldered joints wherever possible.

Use colour coded heatshrink for identification of + and - wiring joints and if you need to bundle cables into harnesses for fixed routes in tight corners use some adhesive lined heatshrink for additional protection.

 

If you want to add to or modify the installation in the future run the cables in plastic flexible conduit always remembering to leave a pull cord(wire) in it for future mods.

 

They may not be the cheapest but you should find all you need on the RS Components website http://www.rswww.com

 

They do a range of Hook Up Wire which is tinned copper Just be carefull to get the correct current capacity size for the applcation.

 

Best Of Luck-I hate wiring!

 

Pete

[Sole Man]

Thanks all for all the advice.

I am sure wuth all your help I will be able to re-wire.

Once agai Thakns!!

 

John

[Paul D]

John,

 

If you want a hand wiring, I will be more than happy to come around and help.

Let me know.

 

cheers Paul

 

[duncan]

solder v crimp has been an ongoing discussion for many years!

 

I had understood that correctly crimped was considered better then soldered but no doubt one of our professionals can help out.

 

Which ever one of the most under emphasised elements is properly supporting the wiring - it's not just neater it will avoid thepotential for broken wires leading to failures at best and fires at worst.

[Sole Man]

Thanks for all your help guys

 

John

[Paul D]

I had understood that correctly crimped was considered better then soldered

Correct IMHO

[great white]

Be Careful Paul

 

I may be looking you way when I start wiring the new boat

 

a job that is now not far off

 

Charlie

[Paul D]

Charlie,

 

More than willing to help, although I suspect you probably have a better knowledge of marine wiring than I have

 

 

[Afishionado]

I had understood that correctly crimped was considered better then soldered

Correct IMHO

Paul, I'm not challenging this answer but I am wondering why a soldered connection isn't better. Surely it must be less suseptible to that sorta verdigris that causes simple mechanical contacts to fail?

 

There must be something else that gives crimps the advantage?

 

Mad Mike

[hotshot]

From a background as an electronics design engineer (long time ago now, though!), some of the reasons went like this:

 

A PROPERLY made crimped joint (many of them, using cheap tools/ cheap crimp tags or poor technique, aren't!) is quicker than soldering, does not require heat (with associated risks and inconvenience; need for power, risk to insulation) and produces a gas-tight "cold-weld" which will not oxidise/ deteriorate.

 

A solder joint stiffens an otherwise flexible cable, possibly leaving it prone to breaking (eventually) at the non-soldered/ soldered junction-point due to work-hardening caused by vibration. Solder also (in these environmentally-conscious days) raises issues around lead contamination ( as solder is primarily lead-tin, with other additions such as antimony to vary properties such as melting-point etc) - although with the amount of lead we chuck around while angling this is hardly a consideration!

 

However, although a poor soldering technique may leave poor connections (e.g. a "cold" joint, where solder is not properly flowed into the joint will be relatively high resistance and also have poor mechanical strength) in general, a good joint can be achieved by using relatively cheap soldering irons and solder tags - so often preferable for the non-professional. Best advice is a good quality soldering iron, properly "tinned" bit and good quality multicore (contains flux) solder. DON'T use an acid flux (such as plumbers use - or at least they did before all the more recent compression joints/ plastic piping!) Make sure to "tin" the wire (unless pre-tinned) and make sure the soldering iron is an appropriate size for the connector you're trying to solder (big heavy-duty battery terminals shouldn't be soldered with a small "printed-circuit" soldering iron - it can't supply heat fast enough and a "cold" joint will result).

 

It is possible to do "belt and braces" crimp and solder, but NEVER DO THIS THE OTHER WAY ROUND! That is, DON'T try to crimp onto a soldered joint; there is no "spring" in solder, so the crimp cannot properly form a good connection.

 

Hope that's helpful.

 

Dave.

Edited September 13, 2006 by hotshot

[Afishionado]

I'll buy that Dave, thank you for the explination. I'll solder on regardless then

 

Mad Mike

[gaffa]

If you want to solder join two wires together the first thing you need to do is ensure you have a firm mechanical joint before you solder.

 

The simplest and best method for doing this is the Philips Joint

 

Strip out a single strand of tinned copper wire from an offcut peice of the wire you need to solder.

 

Slide the Heatshrink sleeving (long enough to cover the joint + a min of 5mm over hang on each) onto the wire ensuring it is slid far enough away from the proposed soldered joint as to be unnaffected by the heat.

 

Pre Tin each wire end and lay the two ends side by side.Do Not swamp with Solder!

 

Wrap the single wire strand tightly around both ends so it acts as a whipping.

The wires at this point are joined in line and supporerted mechanically .

 

Apply clean and tinned soldering iron tip to the joint and apply solder to the wire not the soldering iron.

 

The soldering iron is there to heat the wire to the melting point of the solder.

 

If you touch the solder to the soldering iron tip you have an ideal method of producing a cold joint.

 

Not want you want.

 

Generally a Properly crimped joint gives you a gas tight seal at the point of crimp however the rest of the bare cable left uncrimped is open to the elements and can corrode or become brittle or soft with verdigris.

 

Provided solderd cables are properly sleeved /protected from the elements and are mechanically supported to minimise vibrations after the joint they are my preferred method of connection

 

As with everything the skill improves with practise.If minimum quantity solder soldered joints are good enough for satellites and defence contracts they're good enough for me.

 

Pete

[hotshot]

I should perhaps mention that soldered joints are my preference too! - I was just setting out what I remember about the For/Against arguments (all very well from the comfort of a perfectly equipped workshop, or lecture hall, or armchair by the fire...).

 

Cheers!

 

Dave

[Paul D]

Typed from my armchair by the fire

 

Wire wrapped joints ( not crimped but not soldered either ) are the preferred method within telephone switching equipment and within telephone exchanges as they give more reliable connections.

 

Crimped connectors are used on military aircraft as well as soldered connections and a move to using crimped connectors occured some time ago.

 

If crimped connectors are suitable for Tornado fighter bombers, they are good enough for me

 

( Bit unfair placing sleeves around a soldered joint and then comparing this with a crimped joint which is keft unsleeved ? )

 

Crimping Facts

 

Solder versus crimp

[Shropfisher]

Like Iv'e said got my boat ,it has electric wiring but does not look that good so I want to change it.Will any type of wiring be ok.

Also it needs a new battery,what type should i get and how do you wire it in so that the outboard  re-charges it.

 

Any help gratefuly received.

 

Thanks

 

John

Automotove wiring is perfect but all connections 'should' be soldered as the spade type often get poor contact through salt air corrosion.

 

For battery advice and connection I'll leave that to others, but IMO a good car type battery will serve as an outboards electrical power source.

 

Mad Mike

( Automotove wiring is perfect but all connections 'should' be soldered as the spade type often get poor contact through salt air corrosion. )

 

 

Sorry Mike but I must disagree with the comment about soldering, I work for the company that created terminals and tags, and have worked in the Aerospace, Defence and Marine electronics Industry for 35 years, they do NOT soldor, only crimp, a soldor joint creates a weak point and a " Hinge" effect that under vibration breaks or reduces in conductivity, Also heat travels up the wire damaging the insulation and weakening the conductors, Crimp every time, It's also surprising how many people can't use a soldor iron correctly, get it wrong and the resistance in the joint is huge causing all sorts of problems. even open circuit. There's loads of crimp kits available with colour coded crimps to match the tool and wire. and there not expensive. if you match the spade joint correctly with it's correct female halve you will have no problems.