12m and Charter Boats

[Paul J]

Nice one Tom,

 

Good to see presuure is still being applied to Mr Shaw - it's needed

 

PJ

[Paul D]

Dorset Echo Article

[TomBettle]

BUMP!

 

Sorry, but I feel strongly about this subject and want to see it stay near the top of the scrolling "last post" banner.

 

If you haven't done so yet, please lobby the addresses in Paul's post at the start of this thread.

 

Tom

[great white]

Tom

I tried to add a comment to the echo link

 

I was unable to but I see that you have, how did you do it?

 

Charlie

[TomBettle]

Tom

I tried to add a comment to the echo link

 

I was unable to but I see that you have, how did you do it?

 

Charlie

You have to add your email addy (confidential) and your contact info along with the numbers that appear on the screen (stops automated responses).

[congerclive]

First I'd like to say a big thank you to the contibutors to this forum who have helped improve my Bass fishing off of Littlehampton. Your open exchanges gave me a better idea of what to do in terms of retaining and presenting live Mackerel under floats for Bass.

 

Tom - I appreciate your help in pointing out the thread here. It prompted me to action. The note below was sent to SSFC and Jonathan Shaw today.

 

Lets see if a slightly different approach prompts a different response - I'll share the outcome on here.

 

 

For the attention of Ian Carrier

 

Ian - I know that this is not the first such e-mail you have received just recently since the decision to warm Charter skippers on the south coast of SSFs intent to prosecute any charter vessel over 12m which is found with anglers on board fishing within 6 miles of land.

 

I am based in Brighton but travel 3 or 4 times a year with members of my fishing club to Weymouth to fish with Richard English onboard Lone Shark II. The marks that we fish vary based on the time of year and the species of fish that we are targetting. Our club has a voluntary catch and release approach to our fishing and we normally only keep a couple of fish each for the table. So our retention rate when compared to a 12m+ commercial vessel is miniscule.

 

I guess that SSFs have been caught out by having legislation still on its books which was created at a time when the concept of a 12m+ charter vessel was not even imagined. Instead of castigating SSFs for this I would like to ask how RSAs such as myself, with a strong and very personal vested interest in this matter can help to effect a revision of the legislation.

 

Jonathan - I trust you department are now very aware of this issue and the upset that it is causing across the country for RSAs. To the best of my knowledge no notices for prosecution have been issued yet for any 12m+ charter vessel found fishing within the 6 mile limit.

 

I am therefore hoping that there is something that your department can do to help out Ian Carrier at SSFs before he finds himself in a position where he is obliged to prosecute. Given the large amount of bad press your political party is currently suffering in the news right now I would guess you really don't need a bunch of 12m+ charter vessels accompanied by a host of disgruntled RSAs in their own boats motoring up the Thames flying banners about how ridiculous and unjust a pending prosecution is. I would also guess that it wouldn't help if that was to happen and it came to light that your department was being copied in on many notes similar to this one and did nothing to help resolve the situation.

 

I really do hope that one of the recipients of this note has the creative abilities to do something about this situation rather than send me a standard response that simplies entrenches the parties involved. Having said this I do ask that you do respond as is your responsibility as inidividuals holding public posts.

 

Clive

[TomBettle]

Hi Clive

 

Welcome to PBSBAC and well done for joining our efforts to support Richard and his colleagues.

 

Nice letter and great to coem from a different angle. What these guys need to realise is that they could have a veritable army on their hands to support them, not attack them, if they choose sensible ways of steering us towards sustainable fishing and angling.

 

Tom

[toerag]

I can't believe that a charter boat with 12 anglers and is 12m long and another with 12 anglers and is 10m long can be viewed any differently as they will only catch the same amount of fish which will be a tiny number compared with a beam trawler and the like.

You're right, if they're fishing next to each other the bigger boat won't catch any more. You do forget, however, that the bigger boat has rougher weather capabilities and can go out more often, therefore catching more fish.

[shytalk]

in theory

[great white]

The boat may be able to take bad weather, but will the Crew want to?

 

I have never driven one of the big cats but I am sure the skippers still have to consider their passengers safety comfort and enjoyment before deciding to fish in poor weather.

And the extra size must restrict space to manouver and focus the brain in windy weather.

 

Charlie

[shytalk]

it appears that if you can find someone with a special tape measure which only reads 11.98m they will accept it even if the builder states its 12.1m loa alledgedly ,how do you tell southern sea fisheries is a government dept ????

[Deep Sea Dean]

I received a reply from DEFRA to an email I sent off a couple of weeks ago today. Copied below;

 

Dear Mr Burt,

 

Southern Sea Fisheries Committee

Thank you for your email of 29 November to Jonathan Shaw about the impact of a Southern Sea Fisheries Committee (SFC) byelaw on the activities of charter angling vessels. I have been asked to reply.

The background to this issue is a byelaw introduced in 1996 by Southern SFC which prohibits any vessel over 12 metres fishing within the District. Inshore fisheries management in England and Wales is the responsibility of SFCs and other SFCs have similar byelaws in place.

We have spoken with the SFC about the concerns that you and others have brought to our attention. We understand from the SFC that it has recently come to their attention that, since introducing the byelaw, a number of charter vessels over 12 metres in length are operating in the District. The SFC has written to angling businesses in the area to make them aware of the byelaw.

Although byelaws require confirmation from the Secretary of State (SoS), Defra has no powers to direct SFCs in the conservation and management of their local fisheries. The SoS does have powers to revoke byelaws but we need to be careful in exercising these powers: to do so in this case, for example, could open the District to larger commercial fishing vessels with potentially serious implications for stocks and habitats.

I understand the operation of the byelaw is to be discussed at the next Committee meeting in January. Meetings of the Committee are open to members of the public though there may be restrictions on who can speak. We hope that a solution that is proportionate and practical can be identified by the SFC. In the meantime, if you have not already done so, I suggest you also raise your concerns direct with the Clerk and Chief Fishery Officer to the Committee, Mr Ian Carrier whose contact details are below:

64 Ashley Road

Poole

Dorset

BH14 9BN

Tel: 01202 721373

Mr Carrier would also be able to advise you of the arrangements for the next Committee meeting if you would like to attend.

I hope that this letter addresses your concerns.

Yours sincerely,

 

J B Perse

Customer Contact Unit

Defra

 

[TomBettle]

Had the same one today too.

...nice personal touch rather than the mass mailout ones don't you think?.....NOT

 

One interesting bit is the last paragraph though. At least they are going to discuss a review of the situation.

 

Tom

[Swainiac]

I can see an invite being sent to Mr Carrier to come to our next meeting. The man is a twonk.

[congerclive]

Just wanted to share that I received the same response from Defra. Seems they must have put a bit of time into drafting up this carefully worded response (carefully worded to the extent that no expectations or promises have been set or made).

 

Does anyone know where the SSFC meet?

[Maverick Martin]

Just wanted to share that I received the same response from Defra. Seems they must have put a bit of time into drafting up this carefully worded response (carefully worded to the extent that no expectations or promises have been set or made).

 

Does anyone know where the SSFC meet?

 

See copy email below

 

Dear Mr Burt

 

The proposed dates and venues for the next Committee meetings are as

follows:

 

Eastern Sub-Committee

[Paul D]

Had one of those replies as well. I was quite impressed, until I realised that every one else had one

 

The "We hope that a solution that is proportionate and practical can be identified by the SFC. " is quite interesting as this implies that a clarification of the byelaw might occur ( This would make sense I feel ).

 

Time will tell.

 

[shytalk]

having heard some of the replys to questions ,reports on meetings etc it appears that the commercial sector has the ssfc in its pocket the cfo has a biased attitude toward the commercial sector , the ssfc has the opinion that angling boats are selling their catches (how else could they afford new boats) the charter boats sold their fishing licences ( after being advised to do so or they would be lost anyway by the then fisherys) but still keep selling fish. the selling of the licences is ok for ssfc committee members to do though ( aquiring a full pressure stock licence for a crabber when it was not needed then selling it on for a good profit . as there a many on the ssfc who have little knowledge of the fishing/charter angling industry the must i think rely on the fisherys officers reports so if they say that angling boats are selling fish and must be punished then it must be so !!!! the fact that the ssfc should be representing the interests of all stakeholders seems to have been re written to read to represent the interests of the commercial sector alledgedly !!!!!!! the next meeting of ssfc will be very well attended i feel . it will be an interesting time to see democracy in action !!!!! not

[shytalk]

well boys and girls ive just been to see mr carrier and his southern sea fisheries circus perform at lyndhurst what a show after seeing and hearing the biassed dinosaurs on the committee spouting their supposed views it makes me ashamed to be british if the country is administrated by people like these. a local parkstone council member(and scuba diver) on the ssfc talked so much s**t it he must have been narked he stated that catch and release is not a viable conservation measure !!!!if it wasnt so serious it would be laughable the upshot is that they dont want to do anything . even with nfsa man richard frerre on the ssfc and two local weymouth councillors speaking up in favour of change . ask them for the minutes and have a read yourself !!!!!!!!! more later when i think how to put it in to words

[Paul D]

So when the guy from DEFRA states "We hope that a solution that is proportionate and practical can be identified by the SFC."

 

I guess they are going to be disappointed as no change hardly fits the above bill.

 

[shytalk]

what hope is there when a committee member states that catch and release has no benefits for conservation

[shytalk]

have a read of dave gibsons last post on deepsea . if my reading of the defra consultation paper is correct then when it is introduced sea fisheries committees will be in control of recreational sea angling so if anyone is thinking this doesnt affect them beware before to long the same commercial fishing biassed selfserving committee will have control over your sport . the committe is appointed by local councils county councils and defra who appoint almost 50% but cant remove them !!!!!

[Paul D]

Had a read and I have sent a suitable reply to Ian Carrier. Awaiting my reply now....

 

[Paul D]

If asked the following question in a consultation regarding UK Fisheries in 2003 :-

 

Does current government policy adequately reflect the different public interests in marine resources and environment ? How can biological, environmental, economic and social issues be addressed in an integrated manner ?

 

 

Would you expect the answer to be this ? :-

 

Sea Anglers undoubtably contribute to the local ( tourism ) economy, but they also fish the same resource putting pressure on stocks possibly not less than the inshore fleet. The Charter Angling fleet in Weymouth is quoted as being the largest in the UK. The retention of fish by sea anglers / unlicensed vessels needs to be addressed. They are all fishing the same stock.

 

 

[Wedger]

Tripe!

 

How narrow minded can they be?

 

So easy for them to ignore any differences because this is both what they are told by the commercial lobby - whom they need to appease, and not least, that it is so simple/ less costly and less time consuming to clump us all together.

 

How many 100's of tonnes of fish do the anglers of Weymouth land and do they also discard a further 63% dead into the sea before docking.........

 

Edited January 20, 2008 by Wedger