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Fishery Limit Proposals


Adam F
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That's the point Fred. Anyone can chartered a local chartered boat catch sh*t loads, over 5 days, stick them in the car and drive back with Condor while chartered boat from Poole or Weymouth are only allowed 2 fish over 5 days. It's not the number of fish that is an issue, but the principle it self.

 

Nothing wrong with people coming into the borough selling fish and chips as long as they pay income tax, permits etc, ie., putting some back into the community. Nothing wrong with a little competition, it will teach some local stall selling a can of coke for

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Fred

 

It's only a step forward if the fish saved from mainland charter anglers are also saved from commercials, locals and CI's charters. Keep one sector out and let another sector clear up then no one will benefit from increased stocks.

 

Regarding your backyard comment I don't think you will find a more conservation minded bunch of anglers than our club members. We have report after report on this forum of fish caught and returned. It would appear that even you are learning to occasionally do this. Lets take you recent shark capture as an example, a brilliant job well done with the club endorsing this and going on to put in place a procedure of measure and release, conservation in practice.

 

As an angler I would welcome bag limits or no take zones or whatever if I could see that other stakeholders were being reigned in for the benefit of all and not just the few, I rarely take fish home now so it wouldnt really impact on me personally and I would still go fishing. If they ain

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not happy at all i think there is a meet with the states in a few weeks to discuss the proposals a lot of heresay and speculation was i think used for the document which will hopefully be put straight at the meeting its going to be difficult as the commercials have a lot of power over there but we shall see

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Just returned from 6 days in Jersey, (Not fishing, just doing my bit for Queen and Country) to read all your comments on the proposals from Guernsey concerning fish limits etc. It is my belief that as anglers and skippers we do not need to panic just yet. In fact, I believe that ultimately, following negotiations between Guernsey and other interested parties, including representation by several charter skippers who are working on our behalf, that acceptable conservation measures will be found that will be acceptable to all. Remember that the document issued by Guernsey is just a list of draft proposals, many of which are either unfair, unworkable, or in the case of "high grading", pretty much un-policeable. These are all up for discussion and negotiation, and what is finally agreed somtime in the future, will be quite different to what is on the table now.

 

I understand that our representatives will be seeking for an increase in the minimum landing sizes for named species rather than quantity limits. These would affect both commercial and recreational anglers. This of course would make it a level playing field and increase stocks for all. And of course limits on species landed outside the CI's waters whilst on route, clearly cannot be included. We have quite a lot of ammunition on our side as discussions with Guernsey begin. Firstly we have the support and backing of the people and businesses of Alderney who are at last acknowledging the huge revenue gained from visiting anglers. We have records of recent commercial landings of named species, which apparantly do not show a decline in stocks. We also have the opportunity to educate all concerned in Guernsey that the modern day angler is not someone that slaughters everything in sight, but is conservation minded and very environment aware.

 

My advise to anglers and skippers alike would be to continue to plan trips to Alderney but do write a responce to the draft proposals to the Senior Sea Fisheries Officer of Guernsey. If the current proposed measures would indeed stop you visiting Alderney, then you would need to mention that, but also mention any conservation measures that you already practise. For instance, perhaps like me you already have a greater minimum landing size. I am sure that through education and gentle pursuasion, we can perhaps convince Guernsey Fisheries that any affect on fish stocks by recreational anglers is less than they currently believe it to be.

 

Didn't intend to write as much here as I have done. Just wanted to nip any immediate concerns in the bud. There are some very good people working on our behalf on this matter and I am sure that the end result will be satisfactory for most of us.

 

Kind regards

Steve

 

 

 

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thanks for the input Steve.

 

Certainly good to hear that you believe that constructive discussions can take place.

 

It seems unfortunate that in recent years some indiscriminate actions against visiting angling boats have put of visits to Guernsey, St Peter Port, with Alderney taking the obvious majority of the financial benefit from visiting anglers in terms of harbour dues, accomadation, resreraunts and the odd bar tab here there and everywhere! A shame really as St PP has much to offer and a lot to gain; and isn't much further to the key fishing areas.

 

Whilst we would not be caught up in the current proposals were we to visit again in our own boat I can certaily confirm that we returned more 'table fish' in our 2 trips over this spring than we would normally do. Whether this was becaue of the abundance of fish available or the general feeling that they migh, just might, be there to be caught the next time or not I can't really say. However the smaller, but sizeable, flats all went back and swam away very quickly.

 

Duncan

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  • 2 weeks later...

OK, you boys want some feedback from a 'local'?

 

Some intersting and well reasoned thoughts on here (unlike other forums) but here are the facts:-

There is a pretty small Guernsey commercial fleet. Although you might think the place is paved with fish, the commercials are very restricted by tides and suitable locations to fish, hence the reason that they're not all driving flash cars and living in big houses. Last year at the Mike Pawson presentation on bass, comment was made by a commercial fisherman present that there was a lack of flatties, and a much lower average size. Now the stats don't tell you this, all they tell you is the total tonnage, and that is very dependent on the amount of effort put in (Ie. Bream catches have rocketed from 40-odd tonnes to 150-odd simply because the biggest 2 local trawlers have started pair trawling for them). We simply do not know the effort put in so we cannot make sense of those stats. If the catch per unit effort (CPUE) has gone down then, yes, the fishery is in trouble.

What is certain, is that the visiting UK fleet has massive catching potential due to sheer weight of numbers. Even doing the sums using 1 in 3 or 4 days spent on the flatties at 2 fish per angler, 6 anglers per boat, we are talking tonnes of fish, all taken by a completely unregulated catching force. If the bag limits are a problem, then this is obviously a low estimate. 2005 spring saw lots of '30-40 flats a day' headlines on the deepsea pages, and pictures of decks paved with turbot, this year there's none of that, only 'nice flattie which was returned' type photos. If that's not the sign of guilt, then I don't know what is! If the fishery does go down the pan, then we could probably expect quotas for the commercial guys (there aren't any currently) and a complete closure of the fishery for recreational anglers.

As to the proof of anglers selling their catches? Impossible to police, the anglers aren't going to sell the fish on the quayside, they're going to go back to their local pub or restaurant and sell it through the back door. The only way to reduce or stop this, is to enforce a bag limit.

Why do the proposals include fish caught anywhere? Simply because it would be impossible to prove where fish were or weren't caught. As for cod & pollack - well anglers can simply catch their fill on the way back home outside the 12 mile limit.

My feelings on this? Bring in bag limits for ALL unlicensed vessels, UK or local or private. If skippers don't like that then they can simply go out and buy themselves a fishing license. OK, it will cost them a packet, but licenses aren't exactly losing value are they? Besides, many were licensed years ago and sold their licenses for a fast buck. What goes around comes around as they say. [bTW, local charters are licensed as they fish commercially in winter. Jersey charterboats have to be licensed (Jersey law/regs apparently).]

The bag limits on all the species are fine, you can't really say that you're a recreational angler fishing for your home freezer if 2x 5lb turbot, 2x 4lb brill, 2x 4lb bass, 2x 10lb rays, 2x 2lb bream and as much cod and pollack as you can catch isn't enough! And lets face it, it's not worth freezing fish that have been on ice for 3 or 4 days anyway. Also, if effort is displaced from one species to another due to fishery collapse or bag limits, then all the other fisheries collapse in turn. The local commercial scene is finely balanced with each boat fishing their own method for their own species in their own patch. Force someone to change and things rapidly go wrong. For instance, read the fishery stats on the conger, tope and smoothound catches. That's all caught by 2 boats that used to longline for ray, flats & bass, but don't anymore as it's no longer worth their while.

We all know logbooks for all vessels should have been introduced before now, but the scene has exploded so fast from the days when we'd see Bayzand, Tett, Caines and Dukes 3 times a year (if that), to one where we're seeing boats coming from as far away as Brighton and 10-15 in port most nights for 2 months of the year! Will all the proposals become reality? I don't know, we may get some or none, or all of them, or adjusted ones. It's up to you to make sensible responses (knee-jerk ones will probably get binned) that will carry more clout with the rule makers. It's no use saying 'no we don't want bag limits' when you'd quite happily accept less stringent ones. If GSF are like my chief executive, they don't want to see problems, only solutions. It's the same "why should I do it if he doesn't have to" mentality that has scuppered the BMP and every other fishery policy in the past. I've spoken to some of the BB participants, and they all know it won't last, yet they won't stop whilst their mates don't have to. Hell, would you turn down

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Listening to the Fusheries guys that boarded Tiger Lilly last trip, and reading the posts and other info placed on this thread, I am pleased that this has been taken seriously by forum readers. I was amazed at some responses put to Martin and I when we talked quite openly and frankly to the boarding party, it seemed to me that they had been told to get out amoungst the charters, and basically "Fly the Flag". I think they took it it on board that we (PBSBAC members) are a fair spread of visiting anglers from the South Coast, unlike other anglers from farther up the country who seem to want their skippers to get them over quantity, not quality fish, so it makes their trip worthwhile. As long as Skippers continue to do this, and these skippers are a minority, not a majority, this practice will continue, and the local skippers will feel aggrieved at others taking fish from their waters, to either sell or raffle off to help the proceeds towards the cost of the trip, allowing them o return to the CI's month after month during the season.

 

To have my name placed amoungst these folk is almost slanderous, and I feel annoyed that I am placed in the same pot. I have visited the Islands to sample some of their fantastic fishing, which inst as easy as it may seem on some days, three years consecutively, and have returned many fish, I have yet to come home with a Bass, I have brought home one Cod, two ling, six turbot, and two Brill, on all three trips combined. I do not put myself amoungst anglers who simply fish to fill thier freezer. Pollack and ling are taken purely as they cant be returned due to blown swimbladders, if a method can be used to ensure they survive is returned, I would undertake this.

 

Perhaps a more vociverous stance towards the names that come up time and time again would make these indiduals think twice before booking parties that perhaps might not be fishing for themselves. Who needs to land such a huge amount of fish for personal consumption on a daily basis anyway? That amount should possibly be looked at. If individuals are targetted by the authorities together, not working alone, then investigations are far wider, the investigating agencies have a huge amount of combined powers, including arrest and seizure, and folk will think twice before putting to sea to rape a superb fishing ground.

 

With this in mind, and the bad feeling that has ensued from this, I doubt I will be back over there for a while, and would appologize to the superb hosts who have put us up for three years, but I am not preparred to be tarred with this brush.

 

Rich Swain

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As to boycotting the island because of the BB thing - why not boycott Revolution, Mojo, and all the other boats that go bassing in the Portland race in winter, 'cos that's just as bad.

The point is that the Weymouth chartered skippers are not and have not want a ban/limit for other vessels. They treat the sea as a common resource, there to be enjoy (rightly or wrongly) by everyone else, be it commercial bass boy or pleasure anglers.

 

To anyone who have fished Portland Race, they know the commercial out numbered the chartered 2/3/4 to 1. Plus they are so experienced, 2 persons on board can outfish a full chartered twice over. The Commercials and the Chartered respect each other line of occupations, I haven't heard the commercial lads complaining that the chartered are taking all the fish nor the other way round.

 

The sea is for everyone's enjoyment, and everyone must take precaution to save guard it, not just from anglers and then let the commercial fisherman rape the sea regardless.

 

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lets not confuse bass issues with the flat fish fishery............

 

with the 2005 take of bass and bream exceeding 300, 000 tonnes against less than 20,000 for brill and turbot there is absolutely no comparison at all. In addition just 2 vessels were responsible for well over 50% of this take! However the relative catches of plaice and other flats from the shambles between comercial and charter operations would proabably bear such a comparison - and be quite interesting.

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A little late I know, but I have only just read the the post by "Toerag" on the 18th Sept, in which he asks specifically for my take on the fisheries bag limits proposals.

First of all, I should say that I think the post by "Toerag" was well written, very informative and in almost all respects appeared accurate.

 

My take on this matter then, is as follows.

 

1. Firstly, if I was a commercial fisherman in Alderney, who over recent years witnessed a huge increase in visiting charter boats, and if I believed all the reports that these boats were catching vast numbers of fish daily for selling in the UK, by anglers with a "winch it up and slaughter" everything attitude, then I would want something done about it. So I can understand the concerns of the local fishermen and I can see why we are now in the situation that we are in.

 

2. The problem is however, that whilst the fishing effort by visiting charter boats has increased, I believe that it is still well below what the Guernsey Fisheries believe it to be. Sadly, inacurate reporting by local newspapers has put the visiting angler in a bad light. A am a relatively infrequent visitor to Alderney with just 5 trips per year, but I can tell you that I have never had anglers on board that haven't been willing to release a substantial part of their catch. They have all voluntarily accepted a boat imposed increase to the minimum landing size of turbot, brill and bass and many have released fish even bigger than our own 45cm limit. No fish have ever been returned to be sold and although this, as "Toerag" comments, is difficult to police as a whole. I can police it on my own boat. Simply by the numbers game. If an angler is keeping what I consider to be an unrealistic amount of fish, then I simply release subsequent fish, whatever the size. Anglers soon get the hint, but the reality however, is that this rarely happens because most modern day anglers are already conservation minded. Now I know that not all anglers adopt the same principles as the anglers on my boat, but I do believe that the vast majority of anglers do. If a more accurate picture of the modern day angler had been presented in earlier newspaper articles then I am sure that the current proposals in the consultation document would not have been so heavily weighted against us.

 

3. You can never raise the subject of fish conservation to much and the consultation document produced by Guernsey claims to be in the interests of conservation, so that has got to be a good thing. Sadly though, the proposals currently on the table do nothing for conservation. What they actually do is re-distribute the fish from the recreational sector to the commercial sector as returned fish are simply there to be caught again by those that will not have a catch limit. Further more, the proposals will actually increase the effort on the flatfish. All the named species except for turbot and brill are relatively easy to catch and therefore anglers quotas will quickly be met. Effort will then be maintained on the flatties where catching two brill and two turbot per angler may be harder to achieve. Boats may continue to fish until the quota is caught Potentially, a vessel with eight anglers could legally catch and retain up to thirty-two flatties. Whilst this amount can be achieved now on occasions, the total catch on most trips to Alderney throughout the year fall well below these numbers.

 

4. I welcome efforts by Guernsey to safeguard their stocks of fish for the future. But any measures that may be put into force need to work, be fair and drawn up with an accurate assessment of the needs and current practises of all stakeholders. Maintaining fish stocks for the future ensures a healthy commercial fishing industry will remain but the tourism industry, especially in the case of Alderney, also relies on healthy fish stocks and the ability of anglers to catch them. When considering conservation measures, due regard needs to be given to the potential affects on both the commercial fishing industry and tourism.

 

5. I believe that the way ahead is through increased minimum landing sizes rather than individual limits. This will affect all stakeholders and put us on a level playing field. This would be a real affective conservation measure that would eventually prove to be beneficial to all. It is an easily policeable measure and would remove the un-policeable practice of "high grading" which potentially could be carried out under the current proposals.

 

The points above are all my own views, although having spoken to many other skippers and anglers, it seems that they are shared by most. "Toerag" asks what skippers have been doing in response to the fisheries proposals. The answer is, "a lot". Skipper who visit Alderney have formed the Alderney Charter Skippers Association and key players such as. Roger Bayzand, Paul Whittal, Colin Dukes, and Chris Caines have been working on our behalf. Meetings have already taken place with Guernsey Sea Fisheries and many constructive letters have been sent by other skippers. The Association is supporting conservation measures and is recommending that these should done through increases to minimum size limits and not bag limits. We are also recommending the use of log books to be retained on board.

 

Finally, one small critism of "Toerag's" post. He mentions the change in style of fishing photographs this year and describes pictures of anglers releasing turbot as a sign of guilt. Not so. This is education. This is to show that we are not the "winch it in and slaughter it" brigade as perceived by some. It is also marketing. Marketing is attracting the kind of customers that you want, rather than advertising that attracts customers that want you. I for one am making sure that any anglers that book me for an Alderney trip, know that they will be required to release some of their catch. Check out the Alderney page on my website. It is clearly aimed to deter any anglers that think they are going to load up with fish.

 

Kind regards, Steve

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thanks for taking the time to post here Steve - however much we believe we understand what's happening on boats it's great to get it directly from those directly involved.

 

on the difficultlies for the cskipper with crews who demand to be able to 'bag up' I was pleasantly surprised when he winked and suggested that not all drifts were likely to be as productive! Not having thought about it in that way before when he then went on to explain how that meant that the anglers that actively returned fish usually ended up hooking up with many many more fish............... rolleyes.gif

 

keep up the good work - and I have added flounder floats to the tackle box for next year too....................

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Well worth replying. I have just been reading the attached report from Guernsey sea fisheries and the exploitation of the Bou Blondel bass fishery is truly depressing.

 

If anyone thinks it does not affect our bass fishing then think twice. Bass were tagged in the fishery and turned up along the UK coast.

 

Read the report and see how the fishery was discovered in 2004 - and to the end of December 2005 ( ie. less than 2 years ) a "mere" 137 tonnes of bass have been removed from this fishery. The peak month being April 2004 when 33.9 tonnes were landed. Astounding !

 

Guernsey Fishing Report

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