spNOam Posted February 19, 2006 Report Share Posted February 19, 2006 Is there a substitute for antifouling? Besides keep the boat on a trailer! Its getting close to that time of year again........ Anyone tried this stuff? http://www.miamiboat.co.uk/products.asp#Below Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomBettle Posted February 19, 2006 Report Share Posted February 19, 2006 Until I saw that stuff in the miamiboat link your typical choices were: 1) Traditional Antifoul: Use a known brand and don't go for stuff from a boat jumble as it does have a shelf life and this stuff is often out of date. Most new boats require a slight degrease of the hull, etch / key up the area, prime with appropriate primer and then two good coats of antifoul. This will last a full season, but you will still get some scum and small amounts of growth. At the end of the season, a good jet wash off, lightly etch the hull again and paint some more over the top. A single coat should do the job with a little touch up here and there. 2) Copper Bottom: Fantastic stuff, looks a bit odd, but lasts 5 or 6 seasons before needing reapplying. Follow the instructions to the letter and all the boat will need it a jet wash on the hull each season. The downside is it is expensive, but overall less hassel and cheaper by about year three. 3) On a trailer, boat stack or be mates with a local marina worker who can give you a sneaky lift and scrub every couple of weeks The maimiboat stuff looks good, and sounds suspiciously like copper bottom under a different name. Ask the company about the product and their claims. Is it guaranteed, how is it applied etc. Could be really good, would be interested to know more. Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Afishionado Posted February 19, 2006 Report Share Posted February 19, 2006 Is there a substitute for antifouling? Besides keep the boat on a trailer! Its getting close to that time of year again........ Anyone tried this stuff? http://www.miamiboat.co.uk/products.asp#Below Personaly I would have the greatest suspicion of this Miami stuff. If it is 'completely non-toxic then the only way it can work is to create a none stick 'Teflon' like surface that marine growth can not adhere to. The growth is still ther and stays as a slime on the hull and the principal is that as you get under way the slime is washed off by your speed through the water. These sort of mixtures come on the every year or so under a different manufacturer. As far as I know none have lived up to the claims made and at Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spNOam Posted February 19, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2006 What I am trying to achieve is less work & cost saving (long term) The boat can be trailered & cleaned on a monthly (or so) basis (most of the growth occurs during late July - early August) with little trouble, I have had boats with all sorts of eroding & hard antifoul (however not the copper bottom stuff) all have needed cleaning prior to any re-application. My thoughts are If I am cleaning the boat anyway, why should I be re antifouling as well? Technology is striding ahead so is there a long lasting antifouling/polish/silicone or teflon type coating/or something on the market that I am missing? I am suspicious of the Miami stuff as it seems too good to be true (& expensive) I have yet to come accross anyone who (admits?) to have tried it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Afishionado Posted February 19, 2006 Report Share Posted February 19, 2006 Personaly I think with the low cost of home pressure washers and the speed at which they work a blast off of my trailer outfit is quick and easy and dead cheap too. Mind you the wife says I'll have to start paying her to do it this year. Mad Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spNOam Posted February 19, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2006 How much do you think she'll charge...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Afishionado Posted February 19, 2006 Report Share Posted February 19, 2006 How much do you think she'll charge...... Nice One! LOL Mad Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toerag Posted February 28, 2006 Report Share Posted February 28, 2006 For what it's worth, I use Micron optima on my MI21 which lives on a marina mooring all year round. Once you get at least 3 or 4 coats on it you do not get any fouling at all on the underside of the hull as it simply gets 'washed off' as you drive around. The transom and waterline however, does suffer a bit of green hair which is easily removed by wiping with a sponge. The antifoul is so 'soft' that anything like a scrubbing brush will remove the antifoul very quickly and allow weed to adhere to the underlying material (gelshield in my case). When it was laid up for re-antifouling this winter I simply used a wet rag to 'sand' down any imperfections. I like it because it's water-based so you don't need any nasty solvents or awkward cleanup procedures. OK, it's not cheap, and you'll probably need to touch it up every season, but it is good. Perhaps not so good on a trailered boat as the launching and retrieving will wear it away too quickly. Perhaps the best solution would be to give it an 'undercoat' of a compatible 'hard' antifoul? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spNOam Posted March 1, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2006 All the antifoulings I have used in the past have worked OK...no one has replied with any that really out performs another....As an experiment I think I shall go without any antifouling this season & develop some sort of cleaning system (no fresh water nor electricity at the harbour) so that I can get the boat out of the water, cleaned & put back in one tide.....unless anyone has other ideas..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Afishionado Posted March 1, 2006 Report Share Posted March 1, 2006 Perhaps I have missed something here. Are you keeping a boat on moorings or are you trailering it ? If kept on moorings for more than say a month then some sort of antifoul is essential as weed growth in this area is profilic. If however you are trailering it and return it to the trailer at the end of each trip then there is no need to antifoul at all. Mad Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueboatdriver Posted March 1, 2006 Report Share Posted March 1, 2006 You're right Mike; if I didn't already have antifouling on mine I wouldn't be redoing it every season. I know you can remove it but it sounds like a lot of hard work. Probably worth it in the long run though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newboy Posted March 1, 2006 Report Share Posted March 1, 2006 I think he has the boat in water but planned to go without antifoul and take it out once a month to clean it. SpNOam is from Milford Haven/Anglesey (somewhere North Wales I think), no sure how quickly the green slime grow up there, but down here if you leave you rig down there long enough it will come up slimy on a warm day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazy fred Posted March 1, 2006 Report Share Posted March 1, 2006 well this puts a spaner in the works there is a site that talks of this product but all reports are that no one knows of it!! Miami boat company is listed as "non trading" http://www.ukdata.com/numbers/04838908.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
great white Posted March 1, 2006 Report Share Posted March 1, 2006 Hi I do not think that you would be able to leave the boat without anti fouling in Poole Harbour for a month between scrubs while the slime is easy to get off if barnicles and algea get a grip they are hard to shift. and barnicles can rip your skin to bits. better cheap hard antifoul [Jotan] and a few easy scrubs. than no anti foul and a lot of hard scrubs. Charlie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spNOam Posted March 2, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2006 My boat usually goes into the harbour around the end of March, comes out around the end of October. The harbour is in the Glaslyn estuary http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/119759 so contains fresh/brackish/salt water depending on the state of the tide, barnacles are not a problem as they do not seem to survive in these water conditions, green slime as you say is fairly easy to wash off provided its done before the stuff dries, longish stringy growth appears for about a month July/August ish so planned removals from the harbour will be before & after this period. I am trying to find the path of least effort & what is best for the boat - regular cleaning e.g. quick jet wash & soft brush approach or wash & scrub, rub down & antifoul. That Miami boat stuff does look interesting though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newboy Posted March 2, 2006 Report Share Posted March 2, 2006 Just take it out (I presume you've a trailer) every couple of week to check, if bad then you know it's no good without antifouling, but if it's good then maybe you only need to take it out every 3-4 weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spNOam Posted March 2, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2006 Thats the plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toerag Posted March 7, 2006 Report Share Posted March 7, 2006 By far the best stuff for removing weed is sodium hypochlorite. It is the active ingredient in bleach, and is available in 5 gallon drums. We used to use it at the oysterfarm I worked at as a nipper. Simply dilute it 1 part SH to 4 parts water and spray it on with a weedkiller sprayer. Leave it for an hour or 2 then wash all the dead white weed off. Be warned, it is REALLY strong stuff, you need full waterproofs, gloves, goggles and facemask really. Bleach is something like 2.5% strength, we used to buy it at 40% I think. Sprayed neat onto wood is like painting it white!! Normal bleach does work, but nowhere near as well, and it's more expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Afishionado Posted March 7, 2006 Report Share Posted March 7, 2006 By far the best stuff for removing weed is sodium hypochlorite. It is the active ingredient in bleach, and is available in 5 gallon drums. We used to use it at the oysterfarm I worked at as a nipper. Simply dilute it 1 part SH to 4 parts water and spray it on with a weedkiller sprayer. Leave it for an hour or 2 then wash all the dead white weed off. Be warned, it is REALLY strong stuff, you need full waterproofs, gloves, goggles and facemask really. Bleach is something like 2.5% strength, we used to buy it at 40% I think. Sprayed neat onto wood is like painting it white!! Normal bleach does work, but nowhere near as well, and it's more expensive. I could be wrong but I think one would end up in serious trouble with the Environment Agency and the local water board as the run off from this chemical might enter the surface drains which go straight into top water disposal either in the sea or rivers. Mad Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomBettle Posted March 7, 2006 Report Share Posted March 7, 2006 Hi Mike This is the same stuff you might buy in a chandlers under the name "hull cleaner". Chandleries sell it at very high prices in 500ml bottles. Get a soft brillo pad / scourer, dob some of the stuff on and use plenty of elbow grease over the hull. You can watch the whole lot change back to the original hull colour in front of your eyes. After an hour, jet wash it off and hey presto, new looking hull. It is nasty stuff and always where your marigolds (I didn't and my hands were b@ggered for weeks), but it isn't used in vast quantities. I used it my other boat "Nautibusiness" which isn't antifouled and guessed the whole 21 foot hull took about 300 odd ml including the stuff that spilt all over my jacket, hands, trousers etc. If you took a 10 gallon drum and poured it down the drain I am sure there would be an issue, but a couple of hundred ml diluted a billion squillion times shouldn't pose a problem. Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Afishionado Posted March 7, 2006 Report Share Posted March 7, 2006 Ah well, there you havit from the profeshnials own mouth. Any one useing this method and falling foul of the law can refer the matter to Tom who will undertake your defence at no charge Mad Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swainiac Posted March 7, 2006 Report Share Posted March 7, 2006 If the environmentalists have stopped us using creosote or railway sleepers heavilly painted with creosote /tar mix, or even tannelised timbers near water courses, I'm sure there would be an issue if folk used this chemical without some form of control. Health and safety guidelines may apply to the use of this stuff, but not being a Health and Safety guru, I cant quote. Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncan Posted March 7, 2006 Report Share Posted March 7, 2006 brillo pads and GRP hulls you have got to be kidding (or working for a repair man!!! Sorry but advice like this need qualifing very carefully - gently use, only over areas already coated with antifoul etc etc personally I don't mix chemicals with physical methods at all - and being a lazy sod I now use chemicals. as said things like Starbite 'hull cleaner' are expensive. I believe this is a very dilute hydrochloric acid - well not that dilute as it can melt brushes and many rollers etc v quickly. far better, and safer, is to make up a saturated solution of oxalic acid, add a bit of wallpaper past or other starch to thicken and dollop on the hull, deck, whatever. it will (1) remove stainless rust stains (2) draw that nasty brown stain out of the hull at waterline and (3) bye bye the odd bit of weed etc that survived a quick jet wash. then wash off and polish and wax the GRP/metal - recoat the antifoul. 500g to about 3l hot water works for me - 30 minutes but you can leave it longer without a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomBettle Posted March 7, 2006 Report Share Posted March 7, 2006 Duncan you forgot the optimum word that was used was "soft" I don't know the name of those spongy ones with a gentle nylon style hair. I most certainly do not advocate using wire wool etc to clean yuor hull And not too sure about what the enviromentalists would say, but the bottle says the following: Front: Starbrite Instant HULL CLEANER (+ very expensive Salterns Chandlery price tag) Cleans Scum lines and Stains on Boat Hulls Easily and Effortlessly. (then smaller fainter print) DANGER Poison, eye Irritant. Reverse: Directions: Shake Well Apply using sponge or sprayer. Use of rubber gloves is recommended. Allow to remain on surface for two minutes then rinse with fresh water. Severely stained or dirty surfaces may require a second application. For best results use when temperature is over 50F. To shineand protect newly cleaned hull, apply Star brite Marine Polish or Teflon Polish (mmmm more money). Something about being dangerous and harmful.... Contains Oxalic Acid. Nothing on the bottle mentions "do not pour into water as you will be arrested and sent to prison for a long time" Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Afishionado Posted March 7, 2006 Report Share Posted March 7, 2006 brillo pads and GRP hulls you have got to be kidding (or working for a repair man!!! Sorry but advice like this need qualifing very carefully - gently use, only over areas already coated with antifoul etc etc personally I don't mix chemicals with physical methods at all - and being a lazy sod I now use chemicals. as said things like Starbite 'hull cleaner' are expensive. I believe this is a very dilute hydrochloric acid - well not that dilute as it can melt brushes and many rollers etc v quickly. far better, and safer, is to make up a saturated solution of oxalic acid, add a bit of wallpaper past or other starch to thicken and dollop on the hull, deck, whatever. it will (1) remove stainless rust stains (2) draw that nasty brown stain out of the hull at waterline and (3) bye bye the odd bit of weed etc that survived a quick jet wash. then wash off and polish and wax the GRP/metal - recoat the antifoul. 500g to about 3l hot water works for me - 30 minutes but you can leave it longer without a problem. We used to use Oxalic Acid in the motor trade (and this will date me ) to bleach back the colour of dull grey wood on Morris 1000 Travelers. We got ours from a local chemist who ordered it in for us. The dilution we used did indeed remove rust stains on the paintwork too. After treatment we would wash down with a solution of ordinary washing soda to neutralise the acid. Thinking about it I guess it would remove that yellow/brown waterline staining, and I can certainly recommend it on stained and dull wood, but do remember the washing soda after treatment. Mad Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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