Neo Monthly Comp Pics

[Paul D]

Gordons Gurnard

[Paul D]

Another Gurnard Pic

[Paul D]

My ray ( Spotted ? )

[Manic Moore]

Blond?

[alun j.]

No , not blond. Would go with 'spotted'.

 

A.

[Paul D]

Who cares it was 5 points

 

[Maverick Martin]

Def a spotted

 

Well Done Paul firstly for catching it and secondly for a positive id

 

Martin

[duncan]

At the risk of disagreeing with the Chairman my votes for a blonde.......messed around a bit to get into the shadows on it's back here and

1. Don't see the 4 'eyes' on it's back

2. Less defined but the spots do seem to go pretty close to the edges of the wings

 

as said - 5 points!

 

[alun j.]

Can I change my mind?? After a bit of research, Duncan's right...... the spots to the edge = BLOND.

 

Looking at the photos on various websites......... you can see the variability in colouration.

 

Most blonds I,ve caught have been 'blond', with hardly any spots, just sand-coloured.

 

AND.............. Duncan is the ray - specialist.

 

Well done............both.

 

Alun.

[Manic Moore]

Blond????

[Maverick Martin]

Dont see any creamy blotches/spots and the spots dont go to the edge of the disc but I am probably wrong

[Newboy]

I would still say a spotted.

 

There are prick on either side of the eyes, and what looks like also spikes just between/behind the eyes. The spots are large for the size of fish whereas the blonde has smaller spots.

 

Blonde Ray

 

 

 

Spotted Ray

 

[Swainiac]

Blonde Ray: Dorsal spines none,Anal spines none, upper surface wholly prickly, except in juveniles, underside only prickly along front margins of disc,orbital thorns separate,a regular median rowof 40-45 thorns in juveniles and adult females, interupted on back in males,60-90 tooth rows, upper surface ochre,with numerous dark spots to margins of disc, underside white.

 

Found on sand and sand/rock bottoms.

 

Spotted Ray:Dorsal spines none,anal spines none,upper surface almost entirely smooth in young, prickly in large specimens, except for bare centres of pectorals and hind part of disc.underside of body nearly smooth, orbital thorns seperate,a regular row of 20-50 usually persistent thorns from nape to first dorsal fin.Upper surface brownish with numerous dark spots which do not reach the margins of the disc, frequently a concentration of dark spots forming a ring around a pale centre on hind part of each pectoral fin, underside white.

 

Found in shelf waters to about 100 meters.

 

What do we reckon now? <g>

 

Rich

[duncan]

It's this bit

frequently a concentration of dark spots forming a ring around a pale centre on hind part of each pectoral fin,

that I was looking for when enhancing the photo - the fact that it's listed as 'frequently' as opposed to jsut it has re opens my mind a little though!

 

All spotted I have caught have had quite distinctive 'marks' or eyes on their uppersides, like the photo shown and this image

 

 

As I said above the picture doesn't really enable defititive identification on whether the spots run to the edges or not - but on balance there is enough to again suggest blond to me.

 

There is always a case the other way too and this picture of a spotted would seem to have the spots 'all over' and the distinctive martks arne't that distinctive!

 

However they are there if you look closely and I can't find them on the fish being discussed.........based on the original photo though you couldn't possibly see that!

 

Generally it shouldn't be too difficult to seperate these species at capture and I would certainly think it worthwhile pulling together the info on identification (as appearing here from many sources!) in to one section to give members confidence in thier identification.

 

We are really fortunate that we have such a range of rays in the area; all reasonably accomadating to a range of baits and tactics. Clearly a few more home photos can be added over the coming months too.

[Newboy]

Spotted Ray:Dorsal spines none,anal spines none,upper surface almost entirely smooth in young, prickly in large specimens, except for bare centres of pectorals and hind part of disc.underside of body nearly smooth, ........

 

 

Found in shelf waters to about 100 meters.

It seems there are different identification even on different website, on the one I hihglighted This one it says spotted has pricks on either side of the eyes.

The spotted ray also has small thorns or prickles positioned to the right and left either side of the eyes on the front wing edges, along the centre line just rearwards of the eyes, and along the length of th tail, but less dense in adult females and males than on juvenile fish. Juvenile blonde ray only have a series of fine prickles on the leading edge of the front wing area. Blonde ray also have a series of spines along part of the front underside of the wing margin which is always absent on spotted rays.

 

COLOURATION

The back is a mid brown or darkish sandy colour, scattered with almost black spots. These spots can sometimes form a faint circle on the mid wing area. The belly is white, though occasional fish living over rougher ground can have a few darker "stains" in the belly colouring.

 

SIZE RANGE

Averages between 2 and 3.5lbs. Past tagging surveys suggest that it takes this ray upto 15 years to reach a length (including the tail) of 2ft and weights around 3lbs.

 

A spotted ray only grow upto around 5 lbs so I wouldn't call the this one (if it is a spotted) a juvenile. It also seems the 'circle' of spots doesn't always present on the spotted ray.

 

What do you think should we send it off to Southampton University for ID?

[duncan]

The spotted ray also has small thorns or prickles positioned to the right and left either side of the eyes on the front wing edges, along the centre line just rearwards of the eyes

 

these are clearly present on the fish in question so it's a spotted ray .........unless blondes have them too? It's so long since I handled a young blonde I can't remember.

 

Could it be a hybrid/cross; or a new species even Raja PaulD?

[Paul D]

 

I am actually beginning to regret catching it now

[great white]

Interesting post guys

 

I would say that the fish is a Spotted

 

But that is after viewing the photo as it expands slowly while it enlarges, the spots do not appear to go to the edges of the wings. and other features are not distinct

 

unfortunatly the fish is not posing well for its photo so it is hard to tell.

 

definatly 5 points though

 

It does bring to mind why the subject of fish ID is so important when looking at the species comps, If we can not tell the rays apart 100%

how are we to be sure that "big LSD" are not "small Huss"

and even those among us that are good at catching mullet [Not me by the way] struggle to be 100% on the differance between thick lipped and thin lipped mullet.

 

I had to ask for more opinions on a large red gurnard or small tub last year so these comments are not meant to run down anyone elses lack of skills on this subject.

just to highlight the problems if we expand the list of species for our competitions.

 

How many know the differance between poor cod and small pout???

 

Other than Rich and Billy who probably have to be hot on species ID for there bigger comps,

 

How confident are the other Members????? that no mistake will be made.

I am not 100% sure myself and I have been fishing for over 40 years.

 

 

More food for thought /comment I hope

Charlie

 

 

[duncan]

unfortunatly the fish is not posing well for its photo

 

that's it blame the fish - now I have heard it all!

 

weather, tides, skipper, bait, tackle ............and now the fish.

 

I'm comming round to spotted ........slowly.......with this being the best I can believe to be the wing ring thing. Sry for the quality but not quite NASA technologies here I am afraid.

 

[Newboy]

Not all spotted ray has that particular spots, or at least some has very faint spots not easily visible.

 

Here's one I caught during the burnham match, I believe it's the same one as Paul's, and the 'spot' is only just visible about 6" below my little finger.

 

[duncan]

now that's definitely a blond 'cos she's wearing beads!