rich Posted April 17, 2012 Report Share Posted April 17, 2012 I recently attended a Poole Area Committee meeting at Hamworthy. This was attended by half a dozen Councillors and Steve Dean who is Poole Councils Senior Transport Engineer. I raised the following points. 1) The traffic lights (for mariners) on the new bridge are very difficult to see unless you are directly in line with them. With the sun shining on them they are almost impossible to see. Steve Dean is going to look into this and has promised to get back to me. 2) The new bridge has been years in the planning so why have we had three different timetables in three months and even the most recent is only a temporary one? The meeting was told that as with any new procedure the Council were having to adjust the timetable as things settled down. 3) I told the meeting that the Council had been economic with the truth regarding the holding bay between the bridges. I added that the boating fraternity reluctantly accepted that a holding bay was inevitable but could not accept having to wait up to forty minutes for the next bridge sequence before being able to exit the holding bay. I added that that boat users brought prosperity and employment to the area. If they are to be treated like second class citizens, they will simply up anchor and move elsewhere taking valuable revenue with them. I finished by saying that mariners who have to negotiate the new bridge are referring to it as the "Two Fingers Bridge" because that is how we perceive the council's attitude to be towards us. My accusations were denied and my comments noted. Probably won't get us anywhere but I felt better getting it off my chest. Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Nash Posted April 17, 2012 Report Share Posted April 17, 2012 Although I have no need to use these bridges (as a mariner) I think you have said what most mariners are thinking Rich. With the two bridges so close together there was ALWAYS going to be a bottle neck in the holding area and if I was in the Cobbs Quay area I am sure I would be thinking of moving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjb Posted April 17, 2012 Report Share Posted April 17, 2012 I am at cobbs but as soon as you want to move the other side of the bridges you can add a Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverick Martin Posted April 17, 2012 Report Share Posted April 17, 2012 Rich thanks for having a poke at the powers that be. I have along with others been calling the bridge "The Twin Fails Bridge" It was never going to work out very well for boaters but as usual the council with their "I know best" attitude seem to be doing very well at making things worse than need be. I feel sorry for the water users up at Cobbs and of course Davis's boat yard. I believe both these provisions will end up full of small ie under 25' boats making them unviable, either that or the old bridge will become beyond economic repair and remain open to boats That would be the best result for water users. If the later doesn't happen then there maybe another very large waterside development coming to hamworthy fairly soon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossy Posted April 17, 2012 Report Share Posted April 17, 2012 I am at cobbs but as soon as you want to move the other side of the bridges you can add a Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich Posted April 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2012 I have spoken face to face with several councillors and the Harbour Master and bet them all that as soon as the Twin Fingers bridge has proved reliable that they would decommissin the old bridge. They have all categorically denied this and all said that it has never been discussed. I wonder, bearing in mind that the old bridge is nearly 90 years old and sinking! How can the council afford to maintain two lifting bridges in these times of constraint? Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Fox Posted April 18, 2012 Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 (edited) Rich, Thanks for putting your time and effort in, particularly as I know you can get under both bridges at all states of tide - it's awkward boats like mine that can't! After being trapped before Easter for two 30-minute slots I protested to the Cobbs Quay marina manager, the Harbour Commissioners, the Bridge Keeper directly, and Councillors responsible. Not sure if this had an impact, but might have added to the weight of concerns. Over Easter, we were held for 15 minutes between the bridges as the "indicative" timings were applied more pragmatically. I know they're looking at yet another revised timetable, but if this "imprisonment" in the heart of Poole's industrial wasteland behind tall fences and barbed wire continues, I'll demand a slopping out bucket as a minimum, as my human rights as a prisoner are being denied me, with no access to shore, to toilet facilities, to emergency ambulance or fire brigade services. If that fails, perhaps a television crew on board a boat would show what Poole really thinks of it's local marine services, and the glories of Poole as seen from a visiting boat owner's perspective! I'd like to see free flow (under control of the lights) at peak periods such as public holidays when the basin is at risk of being full. For "normal" conditions, I think having three lifts within 15 minutes would be my ideal - so all boats going up or down the channel are not excessively impeded in their right to navigation. My compromise suggestion (for what it's worth) is to open the second bridge as soon as the first one is closed. Minimal disruption for cars...or boats. What's the harm in that? Mike Edited April 18, 2012 by Mike Fox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted April 18, 2012 Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 There might be a business opporunity here. All you need is a small RIB stationed between the two bridges selling GRP/Gel repair kits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AQUAJAK Posted April 18, 2012 Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 Sounds like Poole Council have employed the same sort of bloke who came up with the Boscombe Reef idea...... And which one of them have got finacial interests in the manufacturing of Traffic Lights..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjb Posted April 18, 2012 Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 I think i might start selling ice-creams , bait , and clean yer windsrceen gov between lifts graham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfisher 126 Posted April 18, 2012 Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 (edited) How did get away with the foot paths on Hamworthy side, lay them then put lamp post's and tree's in the middle of them and make them unusable!! Must be missing something!! Alot of things with the whole project are so near but so far! Edited April 18, 2012 by Kingfisher 126 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted April 18, 2012 Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 How did get away with the foot paths on Hamworthy side, lay them then put lamp post's and tree's in the middle of them and make them unusable!! Must be missing something!! Yep ! Jacqui commented on that one. I think she mentioned something about " Forehead growths " " How useful is that ? " That sort of thing ? ? ? Families with children and pushchairs etc. must find it a struggle, as must elderly people in electric mobility scooters etc. People with dogs - - - - - - - - Trees in the middle of the pavement - - - - - - not really a good idea ! Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Nash Posted April 18, 2012 Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 People with dogs - - - - - - - - Trees in the middle of the pavement - - - - - - not really a good idea ! My dogs love them (well the boy dog does) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pirky Posted April 19, 2012 Report Share Posted April 19, 2012 Ok Lads ... I have kept qt on this one til I had some proper info to offer !!! Rich .... et al 1) Steve Dean is indeed a Senior Transportation Engineer at Poole .....but his expertise is in Traffic and Parking I believe. He is a yachty "sailor" too !! 2) The existing "old bridge " has parts that are designated as a Class 2 listed structure and therefore will be maintained as such for the foreseeable future. 3) The Twin Sails Bridge Project was originally part of a dual plan in which the approaches to the existing "old bridge " would be replaced (they were strengthened a "few" years ago because they failed 40t assessment.... they are currently operating with a class 2 fire engine limit I believe ). Finance for this part of the "plan" is still to be obtained ... so don't hold your breath !! 4) There are to be a few " short term berths " provided between the two bridges which are intended for ships that are of a size likely to find it difficult to hold station in the holding area .. where these are or if they are in place yet I am not sure ... perhaps it will be explained on the PHC website ?? 5) The plan regarding the bridge operation / opening times and signalling is that.... the rules are a "living and breathing" process ... as original operations are used, shortfalls and problems will be noted and addressed ... hopefully to the "delight" of all concerned....( maybe even yet a 3 open sequence will be adopted ???? ) 6) The footpath on the Hamworthy side is currently in a temporary location/ state .... there are so many "services " still to be laid behind the current location that it would have been silly to lay permanent footpath just to excavate again when services were installed..... the final resting place for the footpath is "behind" the trees and lamp columns.... I hope this info is accurate and it helps clear the mist ... though I am still not a "believer" in the new bridge ...i do believe that mis info is not helpful to any one. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich Posted May 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 This is the reply I have recieved from the Council. Dear Mr Stephens, I understand that at the last Hamworthy and Poole Town Centre Area Committee, held on 11th April you raised two concerns: Marine Traffic Signals: I understand that you are concerned that the marine traffic signals on the new bridge are not bright enough. I can confirm that although the Harbour Master approved the signals several months ago it has become apparent that as the intensity of the sun has increased as we approach the summer the visibility of the signals in some conditions is unacceptable. A trial with an alternative type of lamp is being undertaken during w/c 14th May and if successful all the other signals will be changed as soon as the replacement units are available (up to 2 months delivery time). Lifting Schedules: The schedules were developed by the Bridges Operating Board (BOB) which has a bias of members with maritime interests. Since the introduction of the schedules for the two bridge system BOB has requested further changes to address mariners concerns and the Council has very quickly made all the changes proposed. BOB are meeting again on 21st May when further changes will be considered. The Council has worked hard with the maritime community to develop the optimum solution for the two bridge system, however as users and operators gain experience it is likely that the schedules will be developed further. We welcome comments on the two bridge system as we recognise as with any major change such as this there will be a settling in period and the need to made adjustments to achieve the best operating conditions. Regards, John Rice Engineering Manager Transportation Services Tel. (01202) 26 2111 Borough of Poole Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djredrupp Posted May 9, 2012 Report Share Posted May 9, 2012 it has become apparent that as the intensity of the sun has increased as we approach the summer.... Well who would have thought..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted May 10, 2012 Report Share Posted May 10, 2012 however as users and operators gain experience it is likely that the schedules will be developed further. Perhaps we can provide an experience they can learn from, like lots of boats breaking down on a bank holiday. Do the Marinas feel the pressure of a potential loss of income as boaters threaten to go elsewhere? PJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Posted May 10, 2012 Report Share Posted May 10, 2012 Paul - would that be a boat breaking down under the bridge so it can't close? That would be a shame! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuie Posted May 10, 2012 Report Share Posted May 10, 2012 Rob, it would if two boats break down - one under each bridge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncan Posted May 10, 2012 Report Share Posted May 10, 2012 Do the Marinas feel the pressure of a potential loss of income as boaters threaten to go elsewhere? PJ I understood that Cobbs got paid off in advance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pirky Posted May 11, 2012 Report Share Posted May 11, 2012 ???? Not usual in these circumstances and would set an unacceptable precedence !!!! The way the weather is going this year it is unlikely to highlight the failings of the two bridge opening system to any great effect..... What we need is a heatwave and LOADS of boats out and about ... " to-ing and fro-ing " .... with an odd "emergency" type situation thrown in !!! That should shake it up a bit !! Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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