z1plex Posted September 15, 2004 Report Share Posted September 15, 2004 This bitchiness between these boat manufacturers is becoming a bit silly...when I was at the boat show Eddie of Warrior changed his attitude when I told him I was yet to visit Explorer, Bryan of Explorer certainly didn't hide his obvious hate for Warrior and when I spoke to him about Predator I was warned away from them being advised users can't stop them 'porpoising'...what ever that means??, I assume it means riding up in the water then slamming down??, someone please enlighten me. I also have spoken to Arnie of Seahog who assures me all that is said about Cathedral hulls is not neccessarily true!!. The list of comments and cat scratching goes on and whilst I realise competition is fierce it would be nice to be able to choose a boat without the bag swinging and claw swipeing of these guys. I have raised my deposit in as much as I have transferred part of my loan into an account that allows me to use a debit card, I had raised a cheque and put it in an envelope to send off but it makes you wonder if the delivery schedules advised are just dragged out of the air, i've been told 5 weeks but I wonder if that's just a selling ploy...they appear to say anything, right or slanderous in order to get a sale...i've made my mind up to a degree in as much as i've been told Bryan i'm going to have an Explorer however I had recieved a reply from David Steele at Ainsdale which crossed with my visit to the show and I can buy a Predator and new braked trailer for over 1k less than the Explorer/trailer!!, talk about dangling a carrot...I must say though, out of all these guys I spoke to David was by far the least biased, obviously...but it did make a change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverick Martin Posted September 15, 2004 Report Share Posted September 15, 2004 Porpoising is a term used to describe the bow of a boat continually lifting up and down, a bit like nodding your head. It will probably only happen when the boat reaches a certain speed, usually near the top end for the boat (but not always) When deciding about any purchase you have to ignore detrimental comments made by salesmen about competitors products, its in there interest to sow the seed of doubt. You have to look at the products and judge them on there merits. Test drive all of them if you have to but definately have a good test drive of the boat you intend to purchase, you wouldnt buy a car after driving it around the car park so why a boat. Try and find other owners of the same craft and ask their honest opinion, new owners are not as reliable (still in love) as owners who have had there boat a year or two so look for older boats for judgement. Re delivery dates in my experience they are not usualy reliable. I purchased my boat, was given a delivery date that was put back once and on the day of collection was still being fitted out, but I did get it in the end Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncan Posted September 15, 2004 Report Share Posted September 15, 2004 porpoising is where the boat moves through a nose up / nose down cycle rather than running at a constant atttitude. It is generally a soft motion and is not related to slamming. It generally occurs at higher speeds It generally occurs in calmer conditions It is a product of two or more of the following - Hull shape Weight distribution Engine trim Engine height (relationship between prop height and the bottom of the hull It follows that it can normally be trimmed out - and equally it can be induced! Most common cause is where a hull is designed for and open boat configuration but significant additional weight gets added forward of the COG (eg a cabin!). The hull won't have the dynamic lift to support this weight and you will get a porposing effect where the bow dips slightly, the forward area (note this is forward of what was wet not front/bow area and can be only a couple of feet in front of the transom at speed)comes back into play delivering lift so the bows rise and you get into this cycle.. Trimming the engine in a touch will break the cycle. Another 'cure' is those hydrofoyll things......but that's another story! A boat should not have a natural tendancy to porpoise at the right trim/load etc Re the wider issues of 'whicch boat' I would seriously suggest a trip out on the one you are considering - if it does as you expect/require then just go ahead a get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Afishionado Posted September 15, 2004 Report Share Posted September 15, 2004 i've been told 5 weeks but I wonder if that's just a selling ploy...they appear to say anything Re delivery dates.......... If you insist that "Delivery date is the essence of the contract" is put in WRITING and the supplier agrees, then the delivery date is factual and the supplier contract between you and he is void after that time. You are also legaly entitled to your deposit back. However if the supplier will not accept this condition (which is likely) then all sugested delivery dates are phooy and you don't have a leg to stand on. Also ask the supplier what insurance you have against him going bankrupt prior to delivery and you loosing your deposit. A well run and sound company will be able to offer you (at a small charge) insurance against this eventuality. If they say they have not heard of this, doubts should enter your mind. Porpoising is a symtom of a badly set up outfit and IMO to say that "It can't be stopped" is horsefeathers. Mad Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverick Martin Posted September 15, 2004 Report Share Posted September 15, 2004 I would agree with Mike on all counts. My Warrior has a tendency to porpoise at around 30 knots (not that the weather lets you do this speed very often) but a quick touch of the trim tabs soon fixes it Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newboy Posted September 15, 2004 Report Share Posted September 15, 2004 I would expect all 3 boats behave very similarly, as the shape of the hull is basicly the same. The only major difference is the weigh. Obviously, a lighter boat will get blow about abit in strong wind, but just how windy wouldn't you go out? Doesn't Warrior gives a 10 yrs guarantee on thir hull? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverick Martin Posted September 15, 2004 Report Share Posted September 15, 2004 Newboy My Warrior came with a three year warranty, that was five years ago and may have changed since then. Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncan Posted September 15, 2004 Report Share Posted September 15, 2004 If you are lucky Martin they may retrospectively change it to 10 years in 5 years time..... I believe that Mariah had the best hull warantee terms available........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coddy Posted September 15, 2004 Report Share Posted September 15, 2004 I had recieved a reply from David Steele at Ainsdale which crossed with my visit to the show and I can buy a Predator and new braked trailer for over 1k less than the Explorer/trailer!!, talk about dangling a carrot...I must say though, out of all these guys I spoke to David was by far the least biased, obviously...but it did make a change. Hi One of the regular contributors on the IAC (Internet Angling Club) forum purchased a new Explorer. His biggest complaint was the length of time in delivery. It was changed many times, if you want a chat with hime I will pass on his email address to you. Re David Steele, I purchased my Warrior 165, second hand, from him. He said to me that if I was not happy with the boat he would refund my money or find me another boat to my specification. I found him to be be honest and fair and when I had a poblem with the fish finder that came with the boat he offered me a replacement, with a small charge from me as it was brand new or Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z1plex Posted September 15, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2004 It's a real pain but I think i'll stick to my original choice and go for the Explorer, i'm sat here now musing over bits and pieces but I feel if I go another route i'll regret not following my original gut reaction, it seems a few have bemoaned the delivery performance of Explorer but that's just the risk i'll have to take. I will be ringing Brian in the morning to finalise the deposit and delivery schedule and i'll repost the outcome to let you all know, at-least it appears i'm not on my own when it comes to soul searching and head shaking in respect to a new boat purchase....this is my first decent boat and it will have to last me some years to come. Anyhow, thanks for your support and input, you've give a learner boater some needed help and a shoulder!! ... Duncan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam F Posted September 16, 2004 Report Share Posted September 16, 2004 Duncan, Only you know what you really want - if you have done the groundwork - go with your instinct. Explorer have been around for at least a few years now, they get good press and are almost identical to the 165. If the boat is a few weeks late, then its not too big a deal......go for it!! and good luck! BTW - is this yours by any chance??... http://www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk/view/F45778/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z1plex Posted September 16, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 16, 2004 Adam, yes it is, detective or what??, how did you work that one out??, anyhow while I ponder that, i've just sold it so i'm well on the way to an Explorer...on that subject if anyone knows of a suitable secondhand trailer then please let me know as the saving would be vast!...i'll ensure a pint or two wings your way By the way, glad to hear your mobile again, it must be very satisfying knowing the engine is all shiney and new, best of luck with that, although i'm sure it's gonna' be the dogs twitcher in a short time. I rang Brian,(Explorer), today and he's ringing me back Monday from their HQ to take details of deposit etc...I did mention the bag swinging that went on and he's still 'on one' about Warrior, I don't think they are going to buy a pint for each other for some considerable time from what he was saying.....as long as I get my boat i'm not really fussed, anyhow...if a trailer raises it's head please let me know. Regards All Duncan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverick Martin Posted September 16, 2004 Report Share Posted September 16, 2004 Duncan How much are suitable trailers new I ask as I have seen a trailer at our local force four chandlery shop today (Bournemouth Road, Lower Parkstone) and they wanted 895. It is a single axle suitable for boats up to 6 metres. Iits adjustable and so would do the job. I'm not sure if it was braked or not. It looked new but I dont know for sure if it is or not. If its of interest let me know and I'll make some enquiries, take photos and post em etc, unless your local to Poole of course then you could see it yourself Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z1plex Posted September 16, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 16, 2004 Martin, new from Explorer @ 1100/1300,(unbraked/braked) Ainsdale Boat @ 1100 (braked)...so if the right thing then cheaper...I was advised by David at Ainsdale that I needed a Swing Beam Rear Cradle type....that was for the Predator, will it be different for the Explorer?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverick Martin Posted September 16, 2004 Report Share Posted September 16, 2004 Most multi roller trailers have a swing beam set of rollers to the rear. If I can make some spare time tomorrow I will take some pictures and post them here Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newboy Posted September 16, 2004 Report Share Posted September 16, 2004 There's this bloke who make basic boat trailer down at Sussex and if I remember it right, about Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z1plex Posted September 16, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 16, 2004 Martin, thanks for that.....much appreciated mate, good on yer' Duncan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z1plex Posted September 16, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 16, 2004 Newboy, appreciate that too, i'm sure something will rear it's galvanised head soon enough....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam F Posted September 17, 2004 Report Share Posted September 17, 2004 Duncan, Detective??....maybe!, saw the Laguna in the drive, saw it was Bristol, saw it was a 15' fishing boat...with no engine, and saw the engine was a Suzuki!! On the trailer front: As the Explorer is basically a Warrior - you MUST make sure you get a 32 roller trailer. Warrior WILL ONLY guarentee their boats on these. This is because a trailed boat takes a lot of strain whilst on the road, the 16 extra supports cradle the boat far better and spread the load - but have a word with Explorer and see if they echo this. This would then be the indespension roller coaster - about 1200 quid methinks. Also, the whole package will weigh more than 750kgs - the legal weight for an unbreaked trailer - so you MUST go braked. Also using the Laguna, you wont feel the boat when trailering with a braked set-up. Crayside have a trailer sales section, sometimes roller coasters crop up here. Hope this helps? Adam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newboy Posted September 17, 2004 Report Share Posted September 17, 2004 Just remind us which boat are you going for, the warrior 165/elite equivalent or the warrior 150/elite equivalent? Cos the 150 doesn't need a braked trailer unless you go really crazy with acc and kits/equipments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam F Posted September 17, 2004 Report Share Posted September 17, 2004 The Explorer is a 165 equivelent - they dont do a 150 type boat. I think the package weight of a 165 is about 1200kg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newboy Posted September 17, 2004 Report Share Posted September 17, 2004 If it's the 165, then I think it weighs about 6-700kg boat alone, so a braked trailer is compulsary. Interestingly, Adam have you weight you boat and how much extra weigh have you managed to squeeze in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam F Posted September 17, 2004 Report Share Posted September 17, 2004 No I havent weighed BW. The spec sheet from Warrior gives the 165 at 1200kgs. I carry quite a bit of kit on mine, but try not to overload it, so I reckon on BW being between 1200 and 1400kgs. Duncan, have you tried looking through the trailer section on boats and outboards? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z1plex Posted September 17, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2004 Sherlock, , thanks for the info', I have contacted a few mftrs but with little response, it appears the best option is the 'proper' multi roller type, IF one is available secondhand then I ain't gotta clue where it is!, i've trawled thru' loads of sites etc. without success. Martin may have uncovered something....waiting on info' to be posted from him, fingers crossed. Newboy, as Adam points out the Explorer is only available as 165 eq'....thank god, else i'd be slowly pulling my hair out with pliers and talking jibberish, (more so than usual anyway), I did ring and speak to Brian of Explorer earlier in week to give card details for deposit but he suggested I wait 'till next Monday, hmmmmmm....I wish he'd taken it then!!!, would have been well and truly finalised then!, because.............. I recieved a call today from David at Ainsdale Boats offering test ride in a Predator on Monday, I suppose i'll have to go and try as only 99.0?1!% sure , still prefer the Explorer but the difference in price is LOTS!, also I purchased a new engine today, (Tohatsu 50 eptol), as the boat went complete with engine in the end. That was rash, but at least when the boat's ready i'll have something decent to strap on to the back!(yep,....that was very rash) Incidentally, has anyone viewed Endeavour's web site, same as 165 and 'older' model = Explorer Elite...have a look, it gets more intruiging as time goes by... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul D Posted September 17, 2004 Report Share Posted September 17, 2004 Duncan, My work colleague is selling a rollercoaster trailer but I think it may be too big for what you are looking for ( he used it for his Orkney Day Angler ). I can get you details if you wish. I know it is braked and in "as new" condition - but I think maybe too big. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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